Much fanfare has been associated with I-SS winning the 2008 Baldrige Award and much has been said about the costs associated with the process of implementing the Baldrige award and the costs of applying for the award. Now let’s talk about the award itself. I will describe some of what I have been able to learn about those processes by examining the feedback reports that I-SS received from the Baldrige Program.
The Baldrige National Quality Program (BNQP) uses a given set of criteria to evaluate those institutions that apply for the award. That set of criteria is available to institutions before they prepare their materials to submit to the BNQP. Apparently the bulk of the application is a narrative in which the institution itemizes its achievements related to each criteria item. In 2007, I-SS submitted a 58-page narrative and in 2008, I-SS submitted a 51-page narrative.
Each member of the BNQP Board of Examiners evaluates the narrative and assigns a percentage score to each category. The examiners then perform what is called a Consensus Review during which the team reaches a consensus on the score for the applicant. That review and score is then used to determine if the applicant warrants a site visit.
Site visits are conducted for the highest-scoring applicants to clarify any uncertainty or confusion the Examiners may have regarding the written application and to verify that the information in the application is correct. Based on the site visit the percentage scores for each criteria item may change. The final individual item scores, along with a weighted value for each category item, are used to determine overall score called the Band Score. The Band Score ranges from 1 to 8 with 8 being the best score.
Listed below are the I-SS scores for each category in 2007 and 2008. The scores are given as a percentage range rather than a specific percentage value. The percentage range is based on the Scoring Guidelines, which describe the characteristics typically associated with specific percentage ranges. The given scores are the final scores after any adjustments based on the site visits.
Baldrige Education Criteria
| Category | Value | I-SS Score ‘07 | I-SS Score ‘08 |
| 1 Leadership | | | |
| 1.1Senior Leadership: How do your senior leaders lead? | 70 Points | 70 – 85% | 70 – 85% |
| 1.2Governance and Social Responsibilities: How do you govern and address your social responsibilities? | 50 Points | 70 – 85% | 50 – 65% |
| 2 Strategic Planning | | | |
| 2.1Strategy Development: How do you develop your strategy? | 40 Points | 70 – 85% | 50 – 65% |
| 2.2 Strategy Deployment: How do you deploy your strategy? | 45 Points | 50 – 65% | 30 – 45% |
| 3 Student, Stakeholder, and Market Focus | | | |
| 3.1 Student, Stakeholder, and Market Knowledge: How do you obtain and use student, stakeholder, and market knowledge? | 40 Points | 70 – 85% | 50 – 65% |
| 3.2 Student and Stakeholder Relationships and Satisfaction: How do you build relationships and grow student and stakeholder satisfaction and loyalty? | 45 Points | 70 – 85% | 50 – 65% |
| 4 Measurement, Analysis, and Knowledge Management | | | |
| 4.1 Measurement, Analysis, and Improvement of Organizational Performance: How do you measure, analyze, and then improve organizational performance? | 45 Points | 50 – 65% | 50 – 65% |
| 4.2 Management of Information, Information Technology, and Knowledge: How do you manage your information, information technology, and organizational knowledge? | 45 Points | 50 – 65% | 30 – 45% |
| 5 Workforce Focus | | | |
| 5.1 Workforce Engagement: How do you engage your workforce to achieve organizational and personal success? | 45 Points | 70 – 85% | 50 – 65% |
| 5.2 Workforce Environment: How do you build an effective and supportive workforce environment? | 40 Points | 50 – 65% | 70 – 85% |
| 6 Process Management | | | |
| 6.1 Work Systems Design: How do you design your work systems? | 35 Points | 50 – 65% | 50 – 65% |
| 6.2 Work Process Management and Improvement: How do you manage and improve your key organizational work processes? | 50 Points | 50 – 65% | 50 – 65% |
| 7 Results | | | |
| 7.1 Student Learning Outcomes: What are your student learning results? | 100 Points | 30 – 45% | 50 – 65% |
| 7.2 Student- and Stakeholder-Focused Outcomes: What are your student- and stakeholder-focused performance results? | 70 Points | 30 – 45% | 30 – 45% |
| 7.3 Budgetary, Financial, and Market Outcomes: What are your budgetary, financial, and market performance results? | 70 Points | 50 – 65% | 30 – 45% |
| 7.4 Workforce-Focused Outcomes: What are your workforce-focused performance results? | 70 Points | 50 – 65% | 50 – 65% |
| 7.5 Process Effectiveness Outcomes: What are your process effectiveness results? | 70 Points | 50 – 65% | 30 – 45% |
| 7.6 Leadership Outcomes: What are your leadership results? | 70 Points | 50 – 65% | 30 – 45% |
As mentioned before, these scores are used to determine an overall score called the Band Score. In 2007, I-SS received a Band Score of 5 out of a possible 8. The descriptors for the 2007 Band Scores of 1, 5, and 8 are given below.
2007 Scoring Band Descriptors
| Band Number | Descriptor |
| 1 | The organization demonstrates the early stages of developing and implementing approaches to Item requirements, with deployment lagging and inhibiting progress. Improvement efforts focus on problem solving. A few important results are reported, but they generally lack trend and comparative data. |
| 5 I-SS Score | The organization demonstrates effective, systematic, well-deployed approaches responsive to the overall requirements of the Items. The organization demonstrates a fact-based, systematic evaluation and improvement process and organizational learning that result in improving the effectiveness and efficiency of key processes. Results address most key customer/stakeholder, market, and process requirements, and they demonstrate areas of strength against relevant comparisons and/or benchmarks. Improvement trends and/or good performance are reported for most areas of importance to the organization’s key requirements. |
| 8 | The organization demonstrates outstanding approaches focused on innovation, full deployment, and excellent, sustained performance results. There is excellent integration of approaches with organizational needs. Organizational analysis, learning, and sharing of best practices are pervasive. National and world leadership is demonstrated in results that fully address key customer/stakeholder, market, process, and action plan requirements. |
In 2008, the BNQP used a system of two Band Scores one for Processes and the other for Results. I-SS received a Band Score of 5 for Processes and a Band Score of 4 for Results. Again, that is out of a possible 8. That yields an overall percentage score of 62.5% for processes and 50% for results. The descriptors for the 2008 Process Band Scores of 1, 5, and 8, and for the 2008 Process Band Scores of 1, 4, and 8 are given below.
2008 Scoring Band Descriptors
| Band Number | Process Descriptor |
| 1 | The organization demonstrates early stages of developing and implementing approaches to the basic Criteria requirements, with deployment lagging and inhibiting progress. Improvement efforts are a combination of problem solving and an early general improvement orientation. |
| 5 I-SS Score | The organization demonstrates effective, systematic, well-deployed approaches responsive to the overall requirements of most Criteria Items. The organization demonstrates a fact-based, systematic evaluation and improvement process and organizational learning, including innovation, that result in improving the effectiveness and efficiency of key processes. |
| 8 | The organization demonstrates outstanding approaches focused on innovation. Approaches are fully deployed and demonstrate excellent, sustained use of measures. There is excellent integration of approaches with organizational needs. Organizational analysis, learning through innovation, and sharing of best practices are pervasive. |
| Band Number | Results Descriptor |
| 1 | Results are reported for a few areas of importance to the accomplishment of the organization’s mission, but they generally lack trend and comparative data. |
| 4 I-SS Score | Results address some key customer/stakeholder, market, and process requirements, and they demonstrate good relative performance against relevant comparisons. There are no patterns of adverse trends or poor performance in areas of importance to the Criteria requirements and the accomplishment of the organization’s mission. |
| 8 | Results fully address key customer/stakeholder, market, process, and action plan requirements and include projections of future performance. Results demonstrate excellent organizational performance levels, as well as national and world leadership. Results demonstrate sustained beneficial trends in all areas of importance to the Criteria requirements and the accomplishment of the organization’s mission. |
The BNQP does not give a percentage based on the Band Score but the I-SS score of 5 out of 8 yields an overall percentage score for 2007 of 62.5%. And for 2008, I-SS received a Process Band Score of 5 out of 8, which is another 62.5% and a Results Band Score of 4 out of 8, which yields a percentage score of 50%. Weighting these scores equally, I-SS received an overall score of 56.25% for 2008 and that is the year they received the Baldrige Award. The scores for the individual categories verify this lower score for 2008. I-SS scores went down in 10 categories from ’07 to ’08 and only went up in 2 categories from ’07 to ’08.
What does all of this prove? It proves that, as many have thought, the whole Baldrige Award is a sham. How is it that I-SS had such terrible scores and still received the award? Did the BNQP committee just figure that it was I-SS’s turn to get the award? What would I-SS administrators say if they found out that students in a given class were receiving A’s while averaging 50% to 62.5%? Do you think that a high school student would be selected valedictorian or salutatorian with these averages? I don’t think so. It would be interesting to know how many man-hours and how much money was wasted pursuing this award.
Click on the link below to access the I-SS 2008 Baldrige Application, the I-SS 2007 Feedback Report and the I-SS 2008 Baldrige Feedback Report. I-SS provided me with a digital copy of the 2007 Baldrige Application, as it is not available on the school web site. I recommend that you look at these documents. They certainly provide some interesting reading material.
Once again Paul, thank you for your dedication to seeking out the truth. This is lengthy, but very enlightening and it speaks volumes about the truly political sleaziness that now taints our school system.
ReplyDeleteOf course, get ready for the onslaught of "move on, he's gones"...
I, for one DO care about the truth. Those who choose to ignore it do so at their own peril. We certainly do not want a repeat of the sad history of the last seven years.
Why in the world would anyone want to waste another minute on the sham that is Baldrige?
By reporting this information Paul, you also show us how the school board has allowed this waste of time and money to continue. I have heard them say that the superintendent decides on staff needed but they could have taken the time to investigate to see if some of these positions were really needed. How much of the responsibilities of some of his Baldrige hire's where used to collect what was needed to earn this award. We need to make sure that it doesn't happen again and that the school board is held accountable for what they have done.
ReplyDeleteYep, Paul... you show that dead horse who's the boss. Beat it some more, maybe it'll get up and give you something else to chase.
ReplyDeletemy crystal ball remains in tact ...
ReplyDelete8:01pm go find another blog to beat up. Apparantly you have an agenda or you would not berate someone who is trying to better a system by ridding it off waste and corruption.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, the ones, who do not care about anyone but theirself, can always show their ignorance about real people. They are the ones who do not care about students, money wasted, nor the academic environment. It is all about me, and how learning wastes my time, if a lesson can be learned that comes from past history. No wonder, we keep repeating the same mistakes. Being educated does not prevent ignorance. Paul, keep beating the dead horse. It is no different in the political world, the people who keep voting still keep reelecting those who never do anything for the public. When reelection time comes , oh, promises, promises. We can all say "Liar, liar pants on fire". Politics is a game, nothing more. Education is also a political game. We all lose.
ReplyDeleteThe horse should have been beaten while alive. But since it has died, please continue the autopsy.
ReplyDeleteWhen you can't disprove the facts, attack the presenter? You can post hatred, but you can't justify the school winning this award given the facts. Grow up.
ReplyDeleteI beg to disagree. Our school won nothing. Dr. Holliday had a plan and he won. Noone else won.
ReplyDeleteTime to go with the new and get rid of the old.
This blog makes less and less sense. Why are you still talking about Baldrige when the whole thing has been dismantled? Let's face it - Mr. Klaene had a personal vendetta against Dr. Holliday and he STILL can't let it go. Get over it, Paul. The man is gone. Move on. Oh, that's right . . . what would you do with your time if you couldn't do this. No one cares, Paul - just you and your little band of negative nabobs. No one else cares. You're done, a has-been, a nothing. Repeat after me: I will never be elected to the school board. All this effort and I will never be elected to the school board. Pathetic. You need a hobby.
ReplyDeleteISS did not "win" the Baldrige Award..they paid for it. I don't consider something that you pay money for as a "win" or an "award".
ReplyDeleteI think it's very sad that Brady Johnson is bending over backwards to help you and to give you anything you request, Paul and Janey, and you guys still ask for more. What cracks me up is that you all are complaining because Holliday implimented Baldridge, spent the money on it, and the STATE model that is coming down from DPI is all about Baldridge..it may not be called Baldridge, but it still has the PDSA's, the continuous improvement plans, all of it... suck it up, live with it, and move on.. Baldridge, by one name or another, is here to stay. I'm not a director or an administrator of any kind in the district, but I have enough contacts in other systems and in this one that I know what's happening.
ReplyDeleteChange is never easy, it's never accepted easily, and it's inevitable. The staff who are moaning and groaning the loudest need to understand, it's not just I-SS administration that's pushing the process anymore..it's the entire state..if you have an issue with it, take it to Raleigh, and leave the people at I-SS out of it. There's nobody left who spent the money on the Baldridge process. They're all gone, and you need to move on as well. All I-SS is trying to do now is save jobs and keep teachers in the classrooms to teach our kids.
We need to move on. Go complain at the state level about the increase in classroom sizes and about the shortfall on money because the state forecasted less students than what we actually had. Go tell them about that...take your energy and issues to DPI..stomping your feet and making nuisances of yourselves at the I-SS level is doing nothing other than serving to cause more trouble in a system where there is trouble aplenty already.
8:16am what trouble aplenty are you talking about?
ReplyDeleteThose that always deny others the privilege of opinions are the ones who need to grow up. If we are allowed to discuss issues ,then perhaps, they will get resolved. Those that keep hiding half truths under a rock ,do not realize that someone will eventually find out the truth. It may not help those before Baldrige, but it may help those who come after. When there is noone to teach in this state things will change. Everything that is coming from the state did come from some of Dr. Hollidays's work. He was on several summer committees with others. If some truths come out just like it did about the Easleys, then it is possible for some unfavorable things come out about how much money was spent on an old business program through Holliday, then watch how the state will change their opinions. That program came out with the older Bush when he was president. Schools do not need to waste money on anyone but our students. Programs have come and gone since schools began. Just remember new math, lesson plans being checked every Friday, 5 step lesson plans being followed on every subject , lesson plans written with the goal and objective listed for each subject in your plan book,etc.
ReplyDeleteWhat goes round comes round. The new teacher evaluation is already being questioned and changes will be coming about this. Most of our great teachers will be gone or retired ,but being in a school system teaches you about being adaptable. The 21st century is here. I only hope our students will be prepared for real life.
Okay, 10:14 P.M., here are a few things you need to know so that you don't keep teaching the wrong way to kids:
ReplyDelete"noone" is not a word; that's why we have "none" or "no one."
Also, a state is not a person - so instead of saying, "the state will change their options" you should have said, "the state will change it's options."
Also, "if some truths come out just like it did" should be, "if some truths come out just like they did."
Also, "what goes round" should be changed to "what goes around."
Finally, your post has little continuity or logic. Your last sentence should sum up the post, but instead raises a new topic.
Overall, I give your piece a D+ and hope that you don't teach English!
When people from Iredell County post grammatically incorrect, illogical pieces on public blogs - it makes folks from around (not round) here look like country bumpkins.
I am not a teacher and I really do not care what you correct. I have my education from ISS and thanks for my D+. I was in all the Honors classes ,and I am not going to college, because I just wandered through school. I will not tell you which high school. It was probably yours, and probably you were my teacher, so that makes you the biggest failure.
ReplyDeleteI would rather work at Wal- Mart, and not be so critical of another person's writing. I just like to read things and then write what I feel. Most of the time I am texting , and my friends do not care if I write correctly or even spell correctly. Go right ahead and correct everyone's writing. Perhaps, that will help those of us who don't care for this educational system. Because I don't give a flying ______ what you do. Hey ,I'm not suppose to start sentences with conjunctions either. Anyone my age knows that a person can write or spell anyway that they want to. No one but the really old people care.
I may be a country bumpkin but I'll probaly still be here when you are dead and gone. See You' all!!
If you are not from around here, go back wherever you came from. Bye bye!!
ReplyDeleteLet me see, I spelled probably wrong at the end of the last sentence.
Or do you want to say? I misspelled probably at the end of my last sentence. My teachers last year were great complainers.
ReplyDeleteIn the dictionary, it is also spelled no-one. It is better to use anyone instead of no one. It is also what "goes around comes around" but around and round do mean to come into a circle. You can go around something or you can round it up.
ReplyDeleteMost of our young people that listen to us only hear parts, but many students are concerned with what they do hear from teachers in ISS. Their logic has to evolve as they mature. Blogs do not have to be written as research papers, and anyone who thinks so, is not fully aware of the 21st century. Texting or e-mail is a way of communication without spelling or punctuation expected. Your problem was not with what the person wrote. You were trying to make that person feel inferior. A good teacher does not do this to anyone. English teachers try to give separate grades. One is for content and the other is for grammar.
The problem is that person did not have time to edit his or her writing ,if he or she is a teacher. They are too busy doing homework for the system. The teachers have to be at school early ,and then leave late . There are too many meetings and busy work.
ReplyDeleteHe or she is probably an overwhelmed worker ,and a very tired one. The one who thinks she or he has to correct someone's blog writing has entirely too much time on his or her hands. Go help a teacher since you have so much time.
OK, to the OCT 16 at 7:18am poster:
ReplyDeleteBefore you criticize the grammar of another poster, be sure you haven't made any mistakes yourself such as in the following sentence that you wrote:
'"Also, a state is not a person - so instead of saying, '"the state will change their options"' you should have said, "the state will change it's options."' as you wrote it.
The way you used the word "it's" should have been "its" because "it's = it is. It would sound strange to say "the state will change it is options".
OCT 16 at 7:18am,
ReplyDeleteThe next time you get the urge to assume the role of condescending editor, perhaps you should check your own...
TOO funny!
Someone was more afraid of the content and instead of taking it to heart would rather correct its grammar. Ha! Ha!!
ReplyDeleteIt's means it is. It's is a contraction. I guess you never make typo errors. Correct your own grammar before you correct another person's.
ReplyDeleteI am so proud! 6 posts without the word Baldridge or "I-SS" in them! YAY! See! Together, we CAN make a difference!
ReplyDeleteHere's a 'difference for you...elimination of the superfluous IF position and a scaling back of the enormous salaries of I-SS top admins....
ReplyDeleteThis has totally become ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteWhat's beyond ridiculous is the amount of money that has been wasted and continues to be wasted by our school system.
ReplyDeleteThat money should be going to the place where I-SS students will get the most benefit---to the classrooms where students are each day.
No comments or attempts at validating the BS "award"?
ReplyDeleteI-SS has been had---by the bogus Baldrige "Award" process, by Jim Shipley, by all the paid 'form filler-outers', and most of all by Terry Holliday.
Members of the BoE, fulfill your responsibility as overseers of our school system more thoughtfully this time! Do not be taken in by dog and pony shows. This time, look for a superintendent who has strength of character (try to find someone who has not abandoned his/her own children and grandchildren).
Proceed in the superintendent selection process with caution, and use the incredible wealth of experience and resources right under your noses...conduct an independent and anonymous survey of teachers to guide the selection process.
I would like to know why ? If Baldrige has been dismantled why the school staffs have not been informed?
ReplyDeleteWhy do we still have Central office personnel going to Baldrige conferences to be presenters?
Please answer.
Oct. 14, 9:47 PM & Oct. 15, 8:16 AM – The purpose of this blog, as stated at the top of the page, is to promote the quality and accountability of the I-SS. I have tried to encourage the School Board and the administration to do what is best for the students. In addition, I have tried to let the public know when the administration has wasted tax dollars and put in place policies that have impeded the educational process. There is ‘trouble aplenty’ and the public has a right to know all the details. I certainly do not know all the details but I will continue to share the information I do have and I hope that this blog will continue to allow others to share what they know.
ReplyDeleteAs others have said, the Baldrige plan has not been dismantled. Just go to the I-SS web site and check out the items under ‘Quality in ISS.’ Even Mr. Johnson continues to promote various aspects of Baldrige. He says he want to ‘tone it down’ and make it not so heavy handed but from what I have heard that has not occurred at many schools. The I-SS implementation the Baldrige system has put in place such a strict structure that it inhibits creativity and often keeps teachers from doing what is best for their students.
Janey and Paul,
ReplyDeleteBaldrige is not going anywhere. I sat in a teacher's meeting today. It is here to stay. Our board and our central office credits everything to the Baldrige progrsm. Our teachers know that it is all BS. The wall paper will continue. Fools are fools and data is data ,and it all in the pudding. We will never be given the chance to prove as teachers that we do not need to test continually, and report data continually. Creativity is nothing to the powers that be. In a few years, the teacher shortage will be significant because of the burnout that is coming. I hope that when it comes time to elect the BOE ,everyone remembers what has happened to tachers in ISS. Empowerment for teachers must be a figment of someone's imagination, because it is never going to happen in this system.
As for SIT teams in all the ISS schools, let the Central office do it, because it is going to be their way or no way. Quit pretending and wasting our valuable time as teachers that you want our input. More BS. Just send us a list and tell us what to do. That's what we have been doing. Chaos is already here and it will continue.
Baldridge has made a lot of people a lot of money in this district, given a lot of people cushy jobs and advancements...No wonder it's not going anywhere. Those people have been on a power trip for years and Mr. Johnson can apologize to everyone for the way it's been handled, nothing has or ever will change.
ReplyDeleteNow, tell all those people at any one of the two central office locations that they have to do the Baldridge stuff and teach on a teacher's salary, THEN you will see Baldridge change. It would change simply because they wouldn't have the time to sit around and make up paperwork for other people to complete. Has anyone ever looked at an IGP? How many of them have ever actually filled out 10+ student support plans? Baldridge is sold as pointing everyone in the same direction, but in reality, all those arrows are just people piling more things on the teachers.
So interesting that Mr. Klaene is concerned with impeding a teacher's creativity. It hasn't been very long since I was able to view his wife's classroom...not ONE iota of creativity in that boring classroom of hers. Nothing. While I certainly couldn't care less whether the "Baldrige wallpaper" (as many of you call it) appeared on the walls, there was absolutely not one ounce of evidence of anything creative taking place in Ms. Klaene's classroom. As a parent at the school, I have been fortunate that my child hasn't had the unfortunate displeasure of having to endure one of her classes, however, many of my friends' children have, and I have been told that she is by no means a dynamic teacher who is overly concerned with what is best for students.
ReplyDelete9:13 - IGP's and SSP's have nothing to do with Balridge, they are state required.
ReplyDeleteI have concluded that I am one of the few board members who reads the Klaene blog for I do so as a source of information but it also provides a real pulse of the thinking in the school system at a given time. I feel like sort of a field reporter as I write this for I am in Asheville and it is now 5:45 am with a very busy day ahead. I am attending a school law conference sponsored by the North Carolina School Board Association in which board members from all across NC along with superintendents, school board attorneys, central office personnel, and even some teachers meet to deal with such issues as the leagality of school athletics, issues involving public comment at board meetings, changes in the compulsory school laws, the rewriting of the bullying policies in the public schools, sex education, and the legal issues surrounding the H1N1 flu virus. Attendance gives a board member knowledge of how other systems are dealing with the budget crisis, changes in curriculum, reduction in force, and even the searches for new superintendents across the state. Since yesterday, I have been asked a number of times how ISS is doing since the departure of Dr. Holiday but also continue to be told what a great job we have been doing in terms of student achievement and our methods of continuous improvement. Iredell county citizens would be very proud that we are looked upon as a model for how we deal with students and the fact that many systems are beginning to do many of the same things that ISS has been doing for a number of years. A comment was made to me that, "Your system is lightyears ahead of most school systems across the state of NC." I have been reading the blog and I would like to make several comments regarding the present state of affairs in ISS. If you have followed my career on the BOE, you will remember that I said from the very beginning that it was not the model we use but the way it was implemented. I stand by that statement as much if not more at this point than ever before. The point that needs to be made in regard to the idea that we are still up to our necks in Baldrige is that much of what we are now doing has little if anything to do with Baldrige. One revelation I learned recently is that a PDSA is not really part of Baldrige, only the method by which we measure what we actually do with students. A PDSA is not required by Baldrige but is simply the means by which we get from point A to point B. At this writing, there are steps being taken to revise the way a PDSA is being used in the classroom. Also, a PLC is not Baldrige but an example of "Best Practices" as a means that is very effective when working with students. There seems to be this continuous misconception that all we do is Baldrige when it is simply not the case. In many cases, this idea seems to be pushed by teachers who do not seem to realize the difference. The fact is that many of these practices are being used by school systems all around ISS including Rowan/Salisbury, Catawba, Mooresville City, and many others, only it is not referred to as Baldrige. My main point is this even at 6;08 am in the morning is this idea that, "nothing has changed". Since the principals took the survey developed by Brady Johnson, change has begun to take place in many areas of our instructional model. Brady has already made it very clear that there will be more change to come. By the way, teachers will be taking the same survey in November to get their imput into the process. It is paper driven and will be totally anonymous. As I write,
ReplyDeletecentral office is working on the survey where every teacher will have the opportunity to react to every process we used as "to keep, change, or do away with altogether. We may finally get a real true picture of just how teachers in our school system really feel about what they do versus the feelings and attitudes of what seems to be just a minority
Please allow me to continue.
ReplyDeleteI can only speak as one member of the BOE, but I am confident that changes are being made and will continue to be made over the course of time. When we hired Brady Johnson, the board made it very clear that changes in the way we do things had to be made, but they will not happen overnight. Many school personnel wants it immediately, but that is simply not going to happen. I have had a number of principals, teachers, and other school employees to tell me that things are better already and with time,the school climate will improve. People must be patient and give the board and the interim superintendent time to work and WE ARE WORKING.
One final comment is that I am always concerned when individuals are personally attacked in a public forum. We don't make progress when individuals you just happen to disagree with becomes the center of the situation and a victim of the debate at hand. What one perceives to be the case may not always be what it appears to be.
One final thought is that it is going to take time and everything will not happen immediately but I truly believe that we are making progress and will continue to do so. One thing is that principals, teachers, and other employees need to continue to offer their perspective and ideas about coninuous improvement. Speak out and give your opinion and ideas. AND NO, people are not going to be run out of the county just because they offer a different perspective. I may be giving the wrong impression for I am a 100 miles away sounding off in the middle of the night. I need to get ready to go find out how to deal with all the legal aspects of all we do each and every day. Believe me, it is not getting any easier. Have a great day. JR---BOE
Thank you, Mr. Rogers. You serve us well, and explain things that should be easy to understand. I appreciate your time (and lack of sleep) invested in typing that response and thank you again for what you are doing for I-SS...the students AND the staff!
ReplyDeleteI also want to thank you Mr. Rogers. I just wish that the rest of the school board would take the time to respond to comments. If not on this blog, then to personal e-mails, I-SS website, or a letter in the newspaper. When all we hear is silence on their part, we assume that they don't care about the opinions of others. As to change, you are correct about it coming. Some schools are taking the opportunity to make changes according to teacher imput. Other schools are continuing things as usual. I just hope that the survey of staff will be honest and will help bring our system back together as a team and not as one part against another as it has been for many years.
ReplyDeleteThe question I think many would have is this: who is going to handle tallying these surveys after they are completed by teachers? If it isn't someone who is trusted, then the survey will be a worthless waste of time.
ReplyDeleteThis is directed to the post right above this one. Why don't you stop trying to plant seeds of doubt and always attempt to question the integrity of others simply to push what is evident to be your own agenda regarding the workings of the Iredell/Statesville School System. I may be totally in the dark but I don't know of anyone who would attempt to mess with the results of the teacher survey. I have had personal conversations with many of the central office staff and most fully realize the problems with the model and are ready to provide positive steps to solve the problems and ease the pressure that teachers find themselves dealing with on a daily basis. This board member is growing weary of all the rumor, misinformation, finger pointing,back biting, and in a number of cases-one lie after another about the problems that WE ALL find ourselves attemtping to correct. Stop being part of the problem and become part of the solution. It is not changing as fast in some places but let's get everyone on the same page. This thought just did not occur to me at five o'clock this morning in Asheville. I sat in a room of over 300 persons attempting to deal with some of the major legal questions facing public education and I know many do not want to hear this, but we in Iredell County have a great deal to be proud of and have accomplished what many would only dream about. It is a sad state of affairs when you have to go 100 miles away to hear what we need to telling one another. Many on the outside see the positive and we continue to fight over things that are over and done with and we can't change a thing. Let's move on!!!!!
ReplyDeleteExactly, Mr. Rogers! The last two sentences of your post couldn't be more exact and to the point of exactly what is going on! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteMany people may not realize this, but teachers are not being evaluated using the standards on the North Carolina teacher assessment. They are being evaluated on how they implement the Baldridge model. ISS has added checklists to the NC teacher evaluation based on the Baldridge model and the checklists are the only things the principals are to consider. With all due respect, and there is much due to you Mr. Rogers, that does not allow for a different perspective to be offered in this county because teachers ARE marked down on evaluations and made to look like bad teachers based on the model, NOT NC teacher standards. Using NC teacher standards we should all be rated high.
ReplyDeleteOther schools may be recognizing how much we are doing, but ISS is not. Leave a line blank or have the wrong date on a PDSA and ISS marks the teacher as the lowest ranking in about 10 of the NC standards, even if your observation is during a subject that you don't do a PDSA on in your classroom. It may not be considered part of the Baldridge model, but teachers are evaluated on it as much, if not more, than actual teaching techniques and standards.
People want to move on and they want to do it by fixing the problems that exist. Please understand, it's exhausting to hear, we implemented it in the wrong way, so let's do it again.
Thanks for the information. I will look into the situation and get back to you. By the way, why don't you contact me and let me know the full situation. Here again, I never said that things were perfect. In fact, I said very strongly that there are places where people continue to hold on to things as they were at one time. In those cases, things will hopfully change over time. I am now being accused for not accepting a different viewpoint or perspective on the school system. You have missed my point entirely. I am very aware of the problems for my phone rings a great deal of the time, the e-mails continue to appear on my computer screen, and teachers and principals are now beginning to really talk to the BOE. The board is not involved in the day to day evaluation of teachers on the new NC teacher evaluation instrument, but I will take the information, and I will find out just exactly what the situation is at the moment. I have not even mentioned the instrument because I was not even aware there were problems. However, I find it very troubling that I am one who supposely does not allow a differing perspective on issues. I think I am very honest and open and have always allowed for a difference of opinion on any given situation. The very fact that I am writing on this blog is proof that I want an open dialogue and the expression of all kinds of opinions no matter what they might be. I can't remember a situation where I did not follow up on a phone call, e-mail, or personal conversation. A perfect example was an incident one Friday evening when I was sitting in my hotel room at the Broyhill Inn at ASU in Boone calmly minding my own business when I saw an e-mail appear from an ISS parent. I read it and he got a response from me instantly. I gave him some suggestions as to how to resolve the situation and I am assuming the problem was settled the next week for I urged him to contact the school system by 8 O'clock Monday morning. I did receive several copies of e-mails that I was sure that the problem was resolved. Just because I offer a differing viewpoint does not mean that I do not understand the bigger picture. For 35 years, I understood perfectly and I have not forgotten what it is like to look into the faces of children on many rainy Monday mornings. You talk about "exhausting." Teaching on any given day is exhausting even on a good day, and when Friday comes, you can't figure out how you made it through the week. Yes, I remember! You can rest assured that I will look into the situation, and if you want to contact me personally, I will be glad to discuss it with you further.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if you're talking about me accusing you of not allowing different perspectives personally, but let me clarify, I sincerely did not intend to do that. My point was, this is how we're being evaluated...not by you persaonlly, but by district. I apologize if you interupted my comments as personal, they were not meant to be. I have seen you post here before and commend you for taking the lead in the area advisory meetings and being in the schools solving problems. As I said, you do deserve a lot of respect, you have mine, and I never meant to imply differently. You personally do accept different viewpoints, but the teacher evaluation does not. I was just simply pointing out that we are evaluated on our specific use of the Baldridge model, so allowing teachers to have a diferent perspecive is difficult when you're being evaluated on specific things that may or may not have anything to do with your lesson or teaching ability.
ReplyDeleteI understand the long weeks in teaching, trying to stretch yourself 25 different ways for each child all day long is always exhausting, even though they are what it's all about, and so you continue to do it for 35 years! I think every working person goes through that Friday feeling once in awhile. Add on multiple meetings, having all the tests graded, worrying about having the writing and graphs on the wall updated for walkthroughs, it's a little more than it used to be. It used to be you couldn't wait until Friday, now it's probably the busiest day of the week for teachers in regards to paperwork. Sometimes I think Thanksgiving can't come fast enough....hopefully I won't be sick because doesn't that always seem to happen to teachers on long weekends? :)
By the way, everyone is being held to the same standards, so the bigger picture here is the pocess itself. You encourgaed people to speak out and share their concerns, so that's what I was using this forum to do, simply inform you of the process. Again, I did not mean to accuse you of anything, it's really the process itself that needs improved so different viewpoints can be accepted on the evaluations. Thank you for the offer and I will keep it in mind.
Things are not moving fast enough at all. I have lost faith in the entire system and everyone involved. The teachers should have been offered surveys the same time as the principals. Why the wait? The system sucks. just because some people from out of town think they ISS is an example of how to be doesn't make it right. If the way ISS handles problems is better than elsewhere, God help the other school systems.
ReplyDeleteThe other school systems are not aware of ISS problems. They only read that ISS scores are going up, and we won the big Baldrige award.
ReplyDeleteOur school surveys and issue bins are turned around on what is said. Surveys are fixed, so that if you do not answer it back the way they want you to , then it comes back to you, and you are the one who does not care about student learning or achievement.
It is how you play the Baldrige game that keeps you in a position, not how well you can teach. No one can play the game better than ISS employees. We do what we are doing to keep from loosing our jobs. Teachers stay late and put up the paperwork ,and teach in their spare time.
It is the same story as "The Emperor's New Clothes".
I think it is time for Brady Johnson to feel the heat. Also, the ENTIRE BOE needs to go, including John Rogers. He is active, but not effective. We need some human bulldozers to clean up this mess now, not later.
ReplyDeleteI am the one who commented on the handling of the survey...and some need to wake up and smell the coffee...a survey taking process is very similar to the voting process...would we let the politicians who are vying for office tally up the results? Of course not! Begging your pardon, Mr. Rogers, but I do not attempt to create doubt...I merely wish to shed some wonderful, disinfecting sunshine on the stinky I-SS situation.
ReplyDeleteWhat we seem to have here is a lack of trust. The only way to to solve the problem is to have complete transparency. That means approving an outside agency to handle the survey and no one in the system has access. It's called "arms length" and it is the only way for people to have belief in the outcome.
ReplyDeleteDr. Holliday was on the summer committees that worked on producing the new teacher evaluation for the state. The pattern comes straight from Baldrige. As Dr. Holliday stated , this evaluation would be easier for our ISS teachers because we have been doing it. I don't know if it is easier ,but it is exactly like the Baldrige paperwork that we filled out several years with our lead teachers . It definitely needs to be shortened.
ReplyDeleteStop wasting your teaching "talent" in ISS if you feel that every move you make is being manipulated. I can't believe what I am reading here! No matter what is done in this school system, it is somehow done wrong or being sabotaged by someone. And at the end someone has to mention Dr. Holliday...or now start going after Mr. Johnson. Move on or move out!
ReplyDeleteI have never seen a school system have such rabid packs of nay-sayers in my entire life. This is crazy, plain and simple. Dr.Holliday has been gone for a few SHORT MONTHS..it took much longer than that for him to make the changes he has made, so it will take much longer than that for Brady and the BOE to re-organize things to help all of the complainers out. Give them time people. Rome wasn't built in a day.
ReplyDeleteSimple but true fact - teaching will NEVER again be what it was years ago when you started teaching. You're never going to have free reign in your classrooms to do with your time what you want. It's just not going to happen..things change entirely too much, government (both state and federal) has seen to that. No Child Left Untested..sorry, No Child Left Behind has guaranteed that.
Please allow me to clarify several things. As the board moves to select the next superintendent, I wanted to make sure that all groups involved had a say in the process. Whether it is the public, principals, teachers,etc., I felt everyone should have imput. The survey we are talking about was designed by Brady Johnson and included all the processes the system uses under the heading of "Baldrige". Each person is asked to consider each process and place it under one of the following headings: Keep, change, or do away with completely. I thought the principals did a great job and gave some honest feedback. For the person who thinks I am "active" but "ineffective", I have pushed for teachers to have the same opportunity. It is paper driven and will be anonymous so each person can be totally honest and have the imput into the process teachers have been asking for since Dr. Holiday resigned and left for Kentucky. It is my hope that the results will reflect the opinions of all teachers or those who take the time to take it since it will be voluntary. This is an honest effort by the entire board and Brady Johnson to allow for imput, but from what I am reading, it is impossible to please everyone. There are those who question our motives and integrity. Regardless of the results, there will be some who will question its validity and accuracy. Dr. Holiday is no longer in the system and now Brady Johnson and the BOE are under attack by some for whatever we do to correct the problems we realize exist. My final thought on the entire situation is this. I was elected to serve all the citizens of Iredell County and especially all our children. I have made an honest attempt to make decisions based on my experience as a teacher, and what I felt was in the best interest of everyone. I will continue to do so as long as I serve. My comments have been to clarify issues or to provide you with insight by a board member to a situation that is complex, emotional, and very difficult to remedy. My final comment on the entire situation is that this "ineffective" board member will continue to make both intelligent and thoughtful decisions to make ISS an even more effective school system for all concerned. That is all you can ask of anyone.
ReplyDeleteSo you are wanting people to have the input into the process teachers have been asking for since Dr. Holiday resigned and left for Kentucky. He left how long ago? Why weren't the teachers surveyed the same time as the principals? What about the parents? One could take the actions or inactions of Mr. Rogers and Mr. Johnson as attempts at stalling until the new superintendant arrives so they can wash their hands of the whole mess. Mr. Johnson can retire and Mr. Rogers can blame all of the problems on the new super. Sounds about right. I can't believe the statement about the situation being emotional. Of course there are emotional people involved in ISS. What do they have to do with any reasonable thought process needed to fix our problems. And then you say that there are problems that are very difficult to remedy. That is a bunch of BS. When you take out all of the factors that shouldn't be considered and do what is right there are no complications. All rhetoric of a politician. Maybe you should follow the example of your fellow BOE members and stay in hiding.
ReplyDeleteAnd if we left things to people like you instead of people like Mr. Rogers, the school district would be such a greater place? I highly doubt it. Sounds like there's a bunch of couch riding critics who wouldn't know a good idea if it smacked 'em in the face, and who obviously have such grand ideas of how to fix things themselves..I mean, look at the suggestions that pour forth when someone responds!...oops, wait...get rid of Baldridge is the idea behind the blog. How about some constructive ideas rather than the criticism? That's what Mr. Rogers and Brady Johnson are asking for from you. Are you up to it, or would you rather just set back and criticize and encite the mob?
ReplyDeleteOctober 25, 2009 9:37 PM said How about some constructive ideas rather than the criticism? There have been all kinds of constructive ideas and suggestions passed on. The administration and BOE is asleep at the wheel. Get the daisies out of your hair and save your feel good rhetoric for someone else.
ReplyDeleteWell said October 26, 2009 6:20 PM ...last time I checked, teachers, parents, taxpayers did not get paid to do the work that top I-SS administrators and the BoE should be doing. The problems that exist are the result of poor judgment by those that ARE are very well paid (I'm speaking of I-SS top admins here, not the BoE). It is their responsibility to repair our very broken system..and to do that they NEED input as to the problems --- funny how that is misconstrued into complaining.
ReplyDeleteIt is not that we 'set' back (the proper verb here is 'sit' by the way)...we recognize problems and are doing our part when we make I-SS top admins and the BoE aware of what does not work. This is a hugely valuable service.
Oh. and about Baldrige. It obviously needs to be tweaked in the way it is applied. That is where feedback from ther teachers comes in. Oh wait, we asked the principals their opinion not the teachers who teach. Yeah, Johnson and Rogers really want constructive ideas.
ReplyDeletecry baby cry....
ReplyDeleteI represent a group of neighbors in the Lake Norman area who find it highly inappropriate for John Rogers to be commenting on this blog. We intend to voice our discontent at the polls.
ReplyDeleteLast I heard, this blog was open to anyone who wanted to comment...we still have freedom of speech don't we? I don't see anything wrong with John Rogers or anyone else that wants to make a comment to do so.
ReplyDeleteI personally find it offensive that the only BOE member who we hear from is John Rogers. The rest must belong to a secret society or something. Of course since you represent a group of neighbors in the Lake Norman area, that makes you more important than the rest of us so go ahead.
ReplyDeleteIs John Roger's district the Lake Norman area? I thought he represented a Statesville district.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's just that the rest of the Board of Ed members recognize that this blog is little more than griping and complaining by a minority of discontent and ineffective teachers. Mr. Rogers makes the mistake of often quoting this blog as the Gospel. I suspect, if he's not careful, he just might get himself unelected.
ReplyDeleteOctober 27, 2009 8:06 AM to answer your question I am pretty sure that his area is in Statesville. But when you are one of the powerful almighty lake crowd you falsely believe you can do whatever you want to.
ReplyDeleteOctober 27, 2009 8:09 AM to respond to you, I never said that the other board members should post on this blog. As a matter of fact I don't blame them for wanting to avoid it. I was saying that you never hear anything from them anywhere, period. At least Rogers gives the impression that he is trying to do something. Regardless they ALL need to go.
Let's hope that the people who voice concerns do vote in the next election for BOE members. If you don't vote , then you have no reason to complain. Our BOE should not be elected by districts. They represent all our students ,all our parents ,all our teachers and staff, etc. therefore, all voters should get to vote for all BOE members. How can we get this changed before the next BOE election?
ReplyDeleteLake Norman Neighbors said...
ReplyDeleteI represent a group of neighbors in the Lake Norman area who find it highly inappropriate for John Rogers to be commenting on this blog. We intend to voice our discontent at the polls.
October 26, 2009 9:01 PM
.....yeah, SURE you do....
5:42pm you are correct! and the blog below yours is exactly why the BOE should represent all children in the district. Too many times, the "lake neighbors" pressured Dr. Holiday into giving them preferential treatment and the BOE just stood by. Just look back at the redistricting of lines and the petition that was started by the "lake neighbors". That redistricting quickly went by the way side. All children deserve the same treatment no matter where they live.
ReplyDeleteI understand that school systems should be accountable to the public- tax dollars are being used. Are your children being taught well? Are they safe? Are the teachers qualified for their jobs? These are the questions with which the public needs to be concerned. The general public has not a clue of our daily oeprations and strategies.
ReplyDeleteDo any of you who are not educators on this blog also blog about your doctor's office? The management system of Wal-Mart? The training that our firefighter's receive? Aren't you paying for all of these services??
Being a tax payer does not make you an expert in the field of education, and that could not be more evident than in the ramblings contained in this blog. People still don't understand that we can't place all 35 IF's back into the classroom. THE STATE OF NC DECIDES HOW MANY STUDENTS CAN BE IN A CLASSROOM. If a particular school qualifies for 40 teachers, then that is all that the school can have. If you put the IF's back into a classroom, then you have just handed 35 other teachers a pink slip. IF's are not paid for out of the same funds as teachers. You can't pay for teaching positions out of the funds that pay for IF's. Again, leave this to the administrators- that's what they're paid for.
You have a problem with salaries? They're all set by the state. Look at the educational level and years of experience of these folks. The problem is some of you are wage workers with little or no formal education who do not understand why people who "sit behind a desk" earn more money.
The NC evaluation intrument is not an instrument of Baldridge. Those standards are modeled directly from the National Teaching Standards- if you doubt me, check out the standards that teachers have to meet in order to obtain National Board Certification. You will find almost identical standards. The model that we use does work. How else do you think our system has moved from being ranked 50th in the state to 6th?
I don't understand why so many of you have a problem with Continuous Classroom Improvement (yes, that's what it is- it's not Baldridge.) We make plans, teach, assess, and then study the results. Isn't that what we all do on a regular basis? We find a recipe that looks great. We buy all of the ingrediants, follow the directions, and enjoy. Our families give us feedback. Maybe a suggestion is made to add a certain ingrediant next time. Sound familiar? OOH- maybe you're using the dreaded "B" word???
In the blog tonight that 4th graders have no business writing mission statements. Really? A 4th grader can't make a goal? Mission Statements are our targets. If we know what our target is, then we are more likely to be able to hit the target.
As for our BOE, they are dedicated people who have given their time to serve our community- and they do it well. It's interesting how some people think that Mr. Rogers shouldn't post any comments here. I'm sorry- I missed that whole give up your constitutional rights when you become an elected official clause. How exactly will you voice your opinion at the polls when you don't live in his district? Again, some of you just make your lack of understanding clear in this blog.
To those educators who blog and are so unhappy- why don't you just go ahead and retire? Attitudes are contagious. Is yours worth catching? You don't like change, you think you have no room for improvement, you don't like the paperwork. What do you like- besides griping?
To those of you who are not educators- Why don't you all leave the educational strategies to those of us who do have degrees in education? If you are really so concerned about our children- get out in the schools and volunteer. Do something productive.
To 10:24 how DARE you imply that people/parents do not know about education simply because we may not have degrees in education! No one person knows everything or has all the answers.
ReplyDeleteI personally have been involved with this school system since 1990 and have 4 more years of direct involvement. There have been many changes in this time span. Some good and some not so good. I've seen many great teachers leave because they are testing not teaching. My older children I feel have received a much stronger education, they were taught how to look for answers if they didn't not know them, the youngers ones how to take a test,(in multiple choice b or c are the better choices if they are "unsure").
Some people in education have so much "education" some of them have forgotten how to teach! They are right and everyone else is wrong! Does that attitude fit?
Holiday brought some great changes to this school system, no two ways about it. But not all that has been changed is good. An honest look at all needs to happen. Keep what works and stop what doesn't.
That is the problem with many who are in charge at ISS. Too many degrees and not enough common sense. The only sense that prevails is a sense of self importance. You have to love those who have the title "Dr." and who enjoy that title being used when addressing them. It gives them a sense of self worth that their parents failed to give them. They are damaged children with a position. When confronted about a problem they respond like children. The administration is full of them and so is the BOE. It is time to clean house.
ReplyDelete10:24 is a great example of the twisting that is done in this district. And hey, if you don't buy into the half-truths, you simply don't understand or if you're a teacher, then retire or leave!
ReplyDeleteFact: the state only dictates class size for grades K-3 by only putting a maximum number of students allowed to be in a classroom, not a minimum. Just this year, ISS raised class size in 4+ due to budget cuts because the state does NOT have class size limitations on 4-12. Last year, not sure about this year, but last year, we learned that ISS used funds from the state for assistants to hire teachers. It was in one of the pretty graphs from CO and I believe it was they hired 17 teachers instead of 40 or 42 TAs. To say there is no flexibility in funding or that the state dictates class size is simply not true.
IFs are paid with Title 1 money, and yes, that can be used to lower class size and hire teachers as per the national guidelines. It doesn't have to be used for professional development, which is what ISS says it uses Title 1 IF money for, but it can be, just not a requirement from the government.
Another half truth - the teacher salary is set by the state, the teacher supplement is NOT. The state also has a salary schedule for superintendents....none for IF coaches or quality administrators, or any of the other waste at ISS, but our superintendent is paid much more than the state scale. Some of that money comes from county, but could be used for students...tutors, paper, manipulatives, etc.
The greatest twist - sending 35 IFs in the classroom would give 35 teachers pink slips. Every year, teachers retire, they leave, etc. Last year, it was discussed that 80 teachers were leaving, not sure how many actually did in the end, but certainly more than 35.
Another half truth - NC does have a standard teacher evaluation. ISS has added it's own standards, and the principals have been told they are ONLY to consider the evidences on the ISS checklist, no matter what the NC standard actually says.
All teachers go to college too. While there, we all learn the reflection process and how to assess learning. The difference here is that we are using instructional time asking children to do it for us.
Twist, twist, twist...and people wonder why teachers are frustrated.
Oh, how mature. Everyone with a Doctorate had bad parents and has esteem issues? Don't thumb your nose at an education. Do you know how much work, time, and money goes into getting a Doctorate? I sure hope you don't have to make a trip to the hospital anytime soon. Your doctor may not have the confidence to help you. I'm sure these folks are proud of their accomplishment, as they should be.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that you must be an educator to have common sense and understand some things about their child's school. What I am saying is that most of you have not a clue about proper strategies for a classroom- because you're not educators. I'm glad you were involved in your children's education. I frequent Wal-Mart and spend too much money there, but that doesn't give me the right to tell the manager how to mangage the store. Sure, if I have a complaint, I should tell the manager, otherwise he would have no idea of the problem, but I'll leave the solution to him- HE is the manager. Most of you also do not know what really goes on in classrooms. You've heard a few people complain. Do you realize that it is just that- a FEW people. Most of us do not comment when we're happy. It's when we're unhappy that we voice our opinions. What I would not DARE do is tell another another person how to do their job, when I don't have all of the facts. Our kids are not given huge tests all of the time like most of you obviously believe. Short quizzes- 5 to 10 questions are given once per week to two weeks in most classrooms. This is only to tell us if the kids are understanding what we're teaching. Is that excessive to you? The district gives 2 tests during the school year called Predictive Assessments. Two, that's it. Does that sound excessive to you? Would you rather that we just assume that our kids are understanding and retaining knowledge and let them take the EOGs and fail? Oops! Sorry, your kid didn't understand afterall! What kind of education is that?
I want everyone to know that our system is one of which to be proud. We're lightyears ahead of most other systems in this state. While Holliday may not have been perfect (who is) he led our system to the top. I recently attended a conference about the latest developments in the state and learned absolutley nothing new because ISS has already been doing everything they talked about. For all of you who hate the fact that we have IF's-Guess what? Out of the 250 people in attendance at this particular conference, over half were IF's, and none of them were from our system. This is a normal position for educators throughout the state.
If you don't like public education- you can always home school. Then your buddies on this blog that complain about everything can start telling you what you're doing wrong.
One problem with this blog is that it seems to be highly concentrated with ISS employees and not enough other "stakeholders", commonly known as parents who do not work for the system. Perhaps they are too busy with their jobs or have simply become complacent in their child's lives as so many have. This is evident by the lack of turnout for the area meetings. Parents need to get involved in the public schools as they commonly do with charter, private schools and home schooling. As a parent, I find it odd that I have not seen or read on this blog discussions regarding what kids are saying about their experiences in school. One concern I have is when I ask my children if they asked for more help when needed or asked for clarification on a direction. I am told there was no time. Why is it that someone who home schools can get it done in roughly 3 hours, yet our children are in school for 7 hours and there isn't enough time to ask questions? I am not pro or anti Baldrige, but it seems to be taking up alot of precious time that needs to be given to the students and that can never be recouped.
ReplyDeleteTitle II - not Title 1
ReplyDeleteIf your child is saying that they don't have time to ask questions maybe you need to talk to their teacher to check and see how factual that statement is. Kids say a lot of things when parents are questioning their academic progess.
ReplyDeleteHow obvious is it that either an IF or someone involved with the IF program is writing these long pieces filled with self-grandiosity?
ReplyDeleteFunny how the person conveniently ignored October 28, 2009 5:47 PM's elegant rebuttals to inaccuracies (to put it euphemistically) that they posted as fact.
How tired an argument is "Oh, what we are doing is quite above your level of understanding, so don't worry yourself about it..just leave it all to us... And we'll just continue to be exorbitantly paid to mismanage your child's education."
I can't recall when I've read something so insulting! Parents should be outraged...now they get a small taste of what teachers have been putting up with....
No, I'm not an IF,and I'm not involved with the IF program. I just have a mind that is open. Take the Teflon off of yours and absorb some knowledge. Want to know why teachers were hired with TA money? Because the principals chose to have that happen for the benefit of their schools. And for your information, teachers are paid out of ADM money, that stands for Average Daily Membership. The number of students in the school determines how many teachers we are allowed to have. That is the reason that many schools have to change classes around or "lose" teahers to other schools within the district after the first 10 days of school- because of the number of students enrolled. So, sending 35 teachers -IFs or not- into the classroom would have meant 35 other people would have lost their jobs. You act as though we're the only system with IFs, or is that what you all think because you haven't bothered to check into it? Central Office personnel salaries are set by the state. It really wouldn't matter who explained any of this to you. You are all so close minded and bent on hating everything that you would never listen to reason.
ReplyDeleteYOU don't know when you've read something so insulting? How about all of these other posts that are bashing our schools and teachers- you don't find them insulting? You think our administrators are exorbitantly paid- what do others make with similar education and years of experience in other fields?
Principals are NOT told to look for the ISS standards for evaluations. I have listened to the training. Our standards are a GUIDE to things that we do in ISS on a regular basis that already meets state standards. IFs are paid on the teacher pay scale, it is set by the state. We don't ask children to do assessing and reflecting FOR us, they do it WITH us. That's called buy-in, and it is a beautiful thing when done CORRECTLY. Before you talk about half-truths, check out your own.
More condescension does nothing but make one more pompous...it does not make false assertions true.
ReplyDeleteSomeone's facts need to be checked...Title II CAN and HAS been used by numerous systems around the country to decrease class size.
See this thread for details
http://issreport.blogspot.com/2009/09/buddy-hemrics-letter-to-editor.html
Whatever and however IF's are paid is irrelevant, as the position is superfluous, and therefore a million dollar a year plus waste of public funds.
I read the 6:34 post and wondered about the comment of "You've heard a few people complain. Do you realize that it is just that- a FEW people."
ReplyDeleteI wonder where the data is to support this claim. Therefore, I don't quite understand how one can assume that it is only a few. But we really will not know the true numbers unless time is taken to determine the temperature of the morale of I-SS employees.
Honestly, I really do not know how many people are complaining. But, I do know that many teachers have left the system the last six years. I do know why many of them left the system. I do know that I hear the same common critical themes when I encounter and speak with school employees across the county. I know that I can go to facebook and read complaints of teachers regarding there frustration and not having the proper amount of time to teach and plan meaningful lessons for their students. And I do know that I am very concerned upon hearing these common complaints and that I am troubled because I understand the negative impact this has on our students.
I do not try to write with a hateful tone. I simply make the effort to write with a calm demeanor and to stir thought and debate. But let me reflect. Has there been any real public debate regarding the I-SS model of improvement during the last six years? Please do not misunderstand. I am certainly for improvement. But, the real question should be: what is really needed to improve and benefit our students in our educational sysem?
I would like for people in our community to consider and give serious and deliberate thought to the following questions. In other words, I am asking you to do what our educational system does not do and that is getting you to take the time and think seriously. And it would be better if people would actually respond and defend their answers on this blog regardless of their perspective.
1. Should the state mandate that all school systems implement a ranking system that would be modeled after I-SS?
It does seem to be the rave across the state. But should it be the norm?
Let us say the state implemented this measure. Now, please consider the next questions carefully.
2. What do you believe would be the true impact upon the improvement of education across the state if North Carolina adopted this tool of measurement to compare all systems?
3. What do you believe has been the effect of high stakes testing on the educational systems across our state and nation?
4. Do you believe the impact has been positive or negative?
4. Does high stakes testing prove that our students are getting an adequate education? Is that the purpose of this testing?
5. Are our students limited to what they learn due to the emphasis on testing and attaining higher test scores?
6. Do you believe that our students are receiving a better education due to the emphasis on testing and achievement of higher test scores?
and finally,
7. How does it sound when 97% of students are proficient in the tested subject?
8. Now, how does it sound that in order to be proficient one only had to pass 26% of the test. Does that change the meaning of 97%?
Great job, 8:46- a sensible post and wonderful questions. I think there are a lot of people who comment here with the best of intentions, but just some misinformation and a "slight" stubborn streak. High stakes testing has had both positive and negative effects. A few positives that I've seen: It has held sytems, principals, and teachers accountable. No more attitudes of, "I taught it, if they didn't get it, oh well." It has done a lot of good for EC children. They were often overlooked, didn't have proepr textbooks, and weren't always given proper accommodations. As for the testing, you bring up a good point about what it takes to pass the test. I feel that what the state is asking of our children is way too tough. It is above their developmental ability, and that is one of the first things that all teachers are taught not to do. This has frustrated the kids, teachers, everyone. The test is designed in the most cost-effective, time-effective manner possible, which probably isn't the best for the kids, but it would not be feasible to give open-ended tests that allow for creativity. In addition to the time and cost of scoring, it is also highly subjective. There is no easy solution! The test does allow a gifted child to answer very rigorous questions, and that is the reason for a lower score than what we normally consider for passing. As I stated, the state standards and assessments are too difficult for the average kid who doesn't have 2 college educated parents at home. Those kids definitely have a benefit. However, the state is also charged with having kids prepared to enter the workforce and compete for jobs that aren't even invented yet, and compete against children from other countries where education is the parents' top priority. There are a lot of factors that we are not privy to, but I'd like to know what they are! These bloggers should be turned loose on the Department of Public Instruction- that is where the real change needs to happen.
ReplyDeleteFact Check - the district now has 3 PAs, it used to be 4. They call one a baseline, but it's the same format and it's given on the first day of school!
ReplyDeletePrincipals did choose to keep their IFs, but who wouldn't? They don't want to do the work the IFs do! They might have to do stuff for early release days! Do you think they want to go to every PLC? They should, maybe they would have an idea what goes on in a classroom.
Another fact check - students are assessed in math and reading each week. Sometimes there are 2 tests in reading - one for the textbook and one for the PDSA. Sometimes there are two tests in math - L to J or some type of review, plus the PDSA quiz. Some schools are assessing each Friday for what is called an enrichment period.
There are elementary schools with 17-18 kids in a room while others have 24+. Again, ISS traded in TAs to hire more teachers for the more at risk schools.
Central Office personal salaries are NOT set by the state. I can't post the link, but google NC teacher salary schedule, it's easy to find. There is a scale for principals and suprintendents. Interestingly enough, the highest maxium for a superintendent is $134,352 a year, and Brady Johnson is an interum making $175,000. You won't find a salary schedule for the Chief Accountability and Technology officer or Executive Director of Leadership Academy. ISS has more administration than other schools with fewer students, that's the simple fact and has been pointed out on this blog. IFs are paid more than teachers because they are paid 11 months and teachers are paid for 10.
I was not in the principal's meeting, but this is what my principal has repeatedly told us in meetings.
I realize this is a principal who maybe has never done a PDSA, but yes, the students are asked to give us teaching strategies and to reflect on how well those strategies worked.
Nice post Allen!
I guess you missed it- here's the link for central office personnel
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dpi.state.nc.us/docs/fbs/finance/salary/schedules/2009-10schedules.pdf
Just so you all know- I am not a principal, an IF, or any other kind of an adminstrator. I am just a teacher, I do PDSA's and they work. I can also tell you that there are a lot of people, IFs included, who have misinformation about the model and what it is supposed to look like. There's no reason to have a quiz for a textbook and one for the PDSA, if you're doing it right. The kids shouldn't tell you teaching strategies, they should tell you the strategies that have worked for them in the past. There is also a huge change that is getting ready to happen with that process, and it sounds like you'll like it. We're getting ready to have much more flexibility with what we do. I agree with what I think you were getting at with the kids telling the teacher the strategies- that is absurd. We are the professionals and we know what strategies to try. The kids should only be giving us feedback on how it worked for them, and then we can decide to keep using them or not. Our system is not perfect, and that is why Brady Johnson is trying very hard to fix it.
Fact Check - "Again, ISS traded in TAs to hire more teachers for the more at risk schools" - not true, this is a site based decision. Any school in the system (or the state for that matter) can trade in TA positions for teacher positions. It has nothing to do with being "at-risk".
ReplyDeleteYes, IF's work 11 months, but they are paid the same each month that they would have been paid if they were still a classroom teacher, so they're only being more because they're working longer. That's not a raise. Of course they're paid for the extra month of work- who would expect otherwise?
ReplyDeleteGood for you, 9:58. And what would it matter anyway, at-risk schools need the help.
ReplyDeleteEspecially when you teach elementary, they don't know what's worked in the past. The whole point of teaching is to introduce and teach new things. When they've never heard the word estimate, they have no idea what strategies worked for them in the past. And if they worked, the children may not need to be taught it again or why are we wasting our time repeating the past? Maybe, this is part of the problem in ISS, one school is told one thing, apparently you are beng told another. I talked to a teacher last week that said she hasn't done one all year long... Actually a few years ago, ISS had us watch a video in the back to school meetings where it was more than obvious the kids were being the teachers while doing a PDSA. I remember being shocked to hear a young child use teaching terms I didn't know until college.
ReplyDeleteThe reading textbook focuses on one comprehension skill a week, as does PDSA. However, reading should not be taught in isolated skills. As such, the selectiion test may have 2 questions on that week's skill, but will also include different type of questions. In order to have a comprehensive assessment of a child's comprehension, the selection test is the best way to go as it assesses different skills. 2 questions isn't enough, so a lot of schools are using the fresh read for PDSA. The fresh read only has 5 questions, so teachers are being told to create an additional 5 questions based on the PDSA skill of the week.
The starting base pay according to the state salary for school based administrators is $45,372....and Brenda Clark's starting salary....$124,500. Yep our adminstrators are being paid according to the schedule!
Yes, some schools need lower class sizes, I never said otherwise. It just proves that there is flexability in how funds are spent. And of course Title I or II funds can be used to lower class size instead of paying IFs for 11 months.
"The whole point of teaching is to introduce and teach new things. When they've never heard the word estimate, they have no idea what strategies worked for them in the past. And if they worked, the children may not need to be taught it again or why are we wasting our time repeating the past?" You're not teaching the same skill again- just using a proven strategy again, and even Kinders can do this. Let's say the kids need to learn vocabulary. Maybe they use flash cards and it works for that group. So, the next time that they need to learn vocab., reference that PDSA and remind them of what they said about flash cards, you're using the same strategy- not teaching the same words. A kindergarten teacher in my building had trouble getting her children to identify the number 6. A child had the idea for every child to write a 6 beside their name on all of their papers for the week- they all could identify the 6 the next time around. They kept using that strategy. I think it's great that kids can led the discussion- what's wrong with knowing and being able to use high level vocabulary? As for the salaries- we have to stay competitive with other school districts, or we lose good people. Before Holliday got his last raise, the Mooresville Superintendent was making more than Holliday- and look at the difference in sizes of the two systems. I don't have a problem with the salaries for the positions- granted, there are a few people whose worth to our system needs to be evaluated, but the salaries are in line with other districts. As for the IF's- If they're doing their job right, they're impacting a larger population of students than would be impacted if they were still in their classroom by all of the work they do to facilitate instruction. I realize that not all IFs are doing that, but it's the principal's job to handle that problem and make them be more effective.
ReplyDeleteIfs are giving teacher info that has long been used and around. It is the most wasteful position in any school system. It is as an IF has to invent his or her position to continue doing nothing. PLCs can be run with grade level chairs or by the co-operating teachers. Teachers do not need an IF to run the meetings. Teachers can and do differentiate and remediate with students continually in our classrooms. We have been using strategies and assessments before some of the IFs were ever born. We did go to college, and we are professionals. As soon as the IFs came in , teachers were being treated as if we never went to college and could not be trusted to teach a classroom without an IF's input. Waste is waste and this is the biggest waste of taxpayers money in NC.
ReplyDeleteIFs have never impacted the testing in our classrooms. We really have no idea what an IF is supposed to do. The only one the IF really helps is the principal. It just gives him or her someone to put the data together. It helps him or her have someone to do stsff development that is not needed. An IF is a wasted teacher. Students need teachers, not teachers need IFs.
Staff misspelled above.
ReplyDeleteOther counties do not have an IF at every school . They are shared among 2 to 3 elementary schools. Some IFs are doing a middle school and high school together. Other school systems are sharing IFs. Why are we not doing this ?
ReplyDelete"Iredell-Statesville Schools Learning Initiatives Opinion Activity"
ReplyDelete.............
this is the survey that principals took ...it has now been sent to teachers via email.
This is a chance to let Brady Johnson know what you think...It's anonymous, but I've heard no details as to who will dissecting and tallying the results.
*who will BE dissecting
ReplyDeleteFor some reason, the survey email was sent out by Pam Schiffman...curious, because usually the only emails that come from her are the multiple NC WISE update warnings...
ReplyDeleteIn order to distinguish the survey as 'very important', shouldn't the survey email have come bearing Brady Johnson's name?
Classroom teachers do not get an extra month to prepare, but most classroom teachers come in during the summer months to get classrooms ready for the beginning of school. There is no time to get your classroom ready when you come back to school the beginning workdays ,because of all the meetings. You, as a teacher, are expected to have your room ready for "Open House".
ReplyDeleteClassroom teachers are not paid for an extra month, or given any overtime for all the late afternoons and nights spent at school. It is just expected.
Most IFs are gone everyday when it is time to go. What are they doing the extra month that they are being paid for? There are no Baldrige workshops or teachers giving them data to digest. What are they doing? Playing solitaire or IMs to their friends or just wasting taxpayer's time and money during this extra month when classroom teachers are working for free???
Wow!
ReplyDeleteExcellent point, October 31, 2009 9:16 AM !
Can't believe that this had not occurred to me...Many of the teachers I know are at school until 5, 6, or even 7 o'clock several days per week, and as you mentioned, spent weeks preparing for Open House. If teachers were paid for all the actual time spent preparing for instruction, it would add up to much more than an extra month's pay.
And yet, everyone seems to be getting extra compensation for extra work--- except teachers.
ReplyDeleteDon't bother saying "Teacher salaries are set by the state," we all know that.
We also know that teacher supplements are approved and set by the BoE, just as the extra pay for the interim superintendent, all the top CO administrators' raises, and the extra month's pay for IF's were.
Spent several weeks preparing for open house? Wow..if that is the case you have some serious time management issues. I think you might be stretching things a bit.
ReplyDeleteWOW! Soltaire and IMs! Just how close-minded can you be. I see plenty of teachers actually teaching from their seats and sending out emails while students are being given "busy work" so guess what..just because I have seen this done by teachers doesn't mean that I am going to give this "title" to all teachers. Grow up and focus on what is important!!! and don't tell me about what one may do as a representative of all. I personally work my tail off as a teacher and also see my IF still working after I leave in the afternoon so do not judge all b/c of one.
ReplyDelete10:44 - good post. We have good and bad in every position.
ReplyDeleteOctober 31, 2009 10:28 AM ...how naive.
ReplyDeleteSeems that maybe some have never moved into a brand new school or into a new classroom. Or maybe some just prefer to set up things correctly and plan for events and lessons thoroughly.
Still waiting for an explanation from the 'Baldrigeites' as to the seriously 'curved' grade.....
ReplyDeleteHave any teachers taken the survey?
ReplyDeleteI see that surveys are to be sent via courier, this could be uncomfortable for those in smaller schools....
Maybe that's part of the plan, October 31, 2009 12:17 PM
ReplyDeleteIn a year's time, we work at least an additional week in Tuesday after school meetings...and that's if your meetings are only an hour long. When are we going to start getting paid for those hours?
ReplyDeleteOh I'm sure they are working hard in the summer...after all, they have a PLC to plan each week! That could be six meetings, with one agenda, per week! Plus now early release days...gee, No wonder they need an extra month. Too bad it's so easy to reset the statastics on the Solitaire game!
Anyone notice we don't have the option to vote abandon on anything?
ReplyDeleteI would not check either "OK as is" nor "tweak" and then just put "abandon" in the comments section.
ReplyDeleteIf you open up the principals survey, in the results there were several who chose "abandon"
I voted 'abandon' for IF's, CWT's, and CFA's. I increased the font size to make sure the word was very noticeable
ReplyDeletedid you get this on email or hard copy? I haven't received a survey yet..
ReplyDeleteThis came via email, I believe on Wednesday. The email is from Pam Schiffman and there's a letter from Brady Johnson in the email...there are numerous attachments.
ReplyDeleteDeadline for turning in the survey is November 13th.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to see the results of this. There will be years of bottled up frustration let out during this survey in my opinion. I think the key is that many of the items listed will have a positive impact if tweaked properly. The biggest issue to me isn't the things we are doing in ISS as much as the way they were implemented with an iron fist.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know whether or not this survey can be submitted electronically?
ReplyDeleteMost teachers are teaching and not just putting data in once a month. I personaly do not have time to get on the computer, unless it is with my students or NC WISE, during classroom time. I have seen lots of IFs on the computer and on IM. It does take time to prepare for "Open House" and you cannot do it in a day. There are more things to do in a classroom then you must know how to do. You could not make it in a regular classroom. You have no idea except to play solitaire.
ReplyDelete"personally" misspelled above
ReplyDeleteCEOS get paid very large salaries, and our world is really on track, isn't it? Our economy is absolutely wonderful,isn't it?
ReplyDeleteBig salaries and more education do not equate intelligence or common sense in the world of business nor the world of education.
Sometimes common sense is above what is high intelligence . High intelligence can deal with the abstract, but it is the concrete of common sense that builds the real world that the highly intelligent cannot see nor understand.
9:08pm Well put
ReplyDelete