Mr. Rogers, thank you serving on the School Board and for taking the time to consider to the concerns of the citizens of Iredell County.
Monday, August 3, 2009
Mr. Rogers' E-mail Address Update
After the Committee of the Whole meeting, Board member Mr. John Rogers, Jr. stopped me for a moment and asked me to update his e-mail address on this blog. He said he does not regularly use the e-mail address that was formally listed on the I-SS web site and on this blog. Mr. Rogers’ told me his new e-mail address is johnrgrsjb@aol.com and asks everyone to use this address to contact him about any concerns. He also asked me to let everyone know that he does read this blog.
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Mr. Rogers, It is wonderful to hear that you take the time to read this blog. I intended to come to the Committee of the Whole meeting tonight and I did arrive and park. I hesitated outside and finally entered. Upon going inside ADR I walked by several offices and noticed the names of the Holliday hires until I came to the meeting room. I must honestly admit that I was afraid to be there and to go inside. And I am a person that is more outspoken and probably more bold than most I-SS employees. I must admit that I did not enter the meeting room and walked out the end exit of the building and back to my car. I actually saw Holliday go to his car and leave. Admittedly, that was a nice scene. But my point is, if I were that scared than I can only imagine the fear of the majority of I-SS employees. I hope that you and the other board members understand the disappointment and intimidation that many I-SS employees have endured the last seven years. I do hope and pray that you and the other board members will make the effort to understand our complaints and stories and will work to remedy the wrongs of the past. There is absolutely no reason for the employees of the I-SS system to be under such arrogant leaderhip. I do hope the BOE will lead to take our school system in a different direction than the past.
ReplyDeleteI would like to share with you and other readers information regarding standardized tests. It should be considered that the previous administration placed a huge emphasis on test scores and considered these increses to be continuous improvement.
The following is from the IB program Middle Years Practice: From principles to practice.
"Commercially available or state-mandated standardized tests are strategies that are usually designed to measure student aptitude according to very narrowly defined curricular goals. While there may be certain advantages with these types of tests, they are not included in the MYP assessment as they can have detrimental effects on the learning process. The "backwash" effect, whereby teachers adapt their teaching to the limited range of knowledge and skills measured by such tests, can negatively affect the efficacy of the programme to a considerable extent.
While this information comes from a different educational approach, I believe most educators understand the great harm in teaching toward the test.
Dear anoymous. It is sometimes the good-hearted that are the most timid. I'm sorry you didn't feel comfortable enough to attend the meeting since you really wanted to. Thanks for your input on here.
ReplyDeleteIt is a shame, but commonplace when the people who are doing the hands on work realize that their suggestions and opinions are not wanted. It isn't just in ISS that this happens but pretty much everywhere. Those who climb and claw their way to the top sometimes do so for the power of the position.
Fortunately you work for a public school system where that can be changed. You hang in there and encourage other teachers (I am assuming) to do the same.
If people will come together in a large organized manner, the BOE and our school administrators will have no choice but to leave or change their ways.
Until then, I would hope that more teachers would continue to post information on here. If you haven't thought about it, all activity on your school computer is public record, so post from home or somewhere else.
I too am sorry that our system has their most valuable employees so intimidated that they can not feel free to attend a meeting or speak their minds. It is encourgaging to know that at least one member of the board reads this blog and is familiar with the feelings of the teachers. Thank you Mr. Rogers. I understand where teachers are coming from when they say that they are afraid. I too was in that position 2 years ago before I retired. Now I can speak out for those who can't. I encourage all parents to take the time at open house this year to let your child's teacher know that you appreciate all the hard work that she/he does and that you are fighting for their freedom. We are all soldiers in this battle to take back our schools. As to the testing, any teacher will tell you that too much testing has a negative affect on education not a postive one. Lets make this year different. Stop the testing on the first couple of days of school and let the teachers and students spend the time getting to know each other and learning rules and class routine.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Janey. Still in the trenches.
ReplyDeleteI think we need to use some of our tools to reflect over the last seven years and plus delta our current administration so that a new administration has an informed place to start. One plus I would add is the change in our facilities. Holliday can be complimented for getting the ball rolling on the much needed change in many of our sub standard schools. A delta that I would add is the implementation of the IF. I think hiring people to meet once a week for an entire day to come up with a bunch of paperwork is a waste of our resources. My suggestion to the new leader is to make the IF's as accountable as the teachers. Teachers already identify students that need extra assistance. IF's should pull groups similar to Title 1. IF's can attempt various new strategies with these students and report back to the teacher. If the teacher is seeing these strategies work with their own eyes, then the teacher may attempt to use the same strategies. Our system is broke. We will not have money to hire tutors. But we already have tutors employed in every school as IF's. If an IF could take a group of 8 out of a classroom of 25 for 1 hour, the teacher would have a more manageable group to provide more intense instruction. One of our best practices is small group work, let the IF's help us instead of hinder. Teachers, and students would benefit from using the IF's as tools for student instruction.
ReplyDeleteSeeing this happen in our schools is much more important than a graph posted on the wall.
I agree we need more suggestions like this to give to the BOE to assist in the hiring to replace Holliday.
ReplyDeleteThank you Janey. At curriculum week, it was said that baseline assessments are due at central office on Thursday August 27th. Since there are two tests, and we don't start school until Tuesday, that will require we test students on the very first and second day of school. As if the first day of school isn't nerve racking enough for children, we have to throw a test on their desks. The test is designed so that 20 of 30 questions are based on their current grade level, which they have not been taught. This test does little but frustruate and set the kids up to fail on their very first day as we are trying to establish a positive learning environment.
ReplyDeleteI encourage the board members to find a testing schedule and include every Friday for PDSA reading and math tests. Teachers are upset about the limitations being put on instruction, but I hear parents complain all the time about testing.
How about using the 100,000+ salary of the Ex. Dir. of the Leadership Acadmey to hire teachers rather than go train outside the district. Other districts don't have money to hire ISS.
ReplyDeleteWe have a director of professional development. This additional JSA hire is not needed. Only experience is in the classroom and as a consultant. What justifies the salary? No additional degress....no additional certifications....relative of another ISS administrator...!!!
At least the IFs are out helping our teachers - not others! Surely enough money has not been brought in to cover this persons salary!
I think the board member who reads this blog should realize that only 2 or 3 from this group even showed up at the meeting. not because they were intimidatd, but because they are posting on this blog over and over to make it look like they represent the teachers of this district who are happily enjoying vacation - not on here slinging mud. perhaps Klaene's wife should present her scores to the board and then share her opinions. If teachers posted their scores on their doors as far as growth opportunities for students - no one would be picking these teachers!
ReplyDeleteRegarding the comment of 8-4 9:17
ReplyDeleteI think that anyone who reads this blog should notice the dissension. I have worked in the system for over 25 years and have never seen or experienced such a divide. What brought this to our system? I ask this jokingly. And I wonder if this poster has any mud on their hands.
>> If teachers posted their scores on their doors as far as growth opportunities for students - no one would be picking these teachers!<<
ReplyDeleteIs that really where you want to go....to take one sliver of what is involved in the raising of a child (because that's what teachers are doing -- we're not merely instructional cogs)and make that the supreme litmus test of whether a teacher is worthy to teach a child? You want to hang your child's future on EOGs which were only ever designed and validated to measure schools, not individual students nor teachers? And if if they were better constructed and weren't of a high-stakes nature, you want to hand your child over to functionary who "achieves results" no matter what the opportunity costs are?
Reduce a classroom teacher, reduce the class experience to a sliver of dubious data and then worship it? By all means, seek out "growth opportunities" for your child but I think you'll find conflating upward trending test data with growth opportunities won't get your child where you truly want him or her to be as a person.
Well said, Mr.deVille!
ReplyDeleteI think Einstein's quote merits repeating...
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."
If we start posting teachers scores we need to keep in mind growth only. Teachers are never handed equal classes to compare and were often talked down during PLC's because of scores in one class are not rising like scores from another. Some classes are stacked with various challenges and teachers work hard to have these students experience success and grow, it is just not at the same rate as another class. We need to think of these struggles before berating the teacher. My child scored poorly on his predictive assessments this year but the growth that I noticed throughout the year was tremendous and I attribute it to the hard work of his teacher. She worked hard to help him feel part of the class and he flourished. He would bring down her class average I am sure, but I am so proud of his accomplishments this year. I know that all of the hard work of his teacher wouldn't be shown in test scores.
ReplyDeleteThanks Mr. DeVille! Nice Einsten quote too!
ReplyDeleteRegarding 9:17 as well, I think you are seriously living underneath a rock if you think there are only 2-3 teachers in the district who feel threatened or are very satisfied with ISS. Maybe you should take a walk around and ask people how they're feeling.
It doesn't matter what anyone says ,those that do not teach classrooms are not pulling the workload that a classroom teacher now has.
ReplyDeleteK-2 had enough assessments mandated by the state and no more were needed. These are children and someone must not know the psychology that deals with overtesting. Students can be burnt out now by 4th grade. Is this what we all want for our children? We are going to have students who detest getting up in the morning and going to school because all we do is assess continually.
Anyone with half a brain would know these children do not need testing at the very beginning of school. It seems some do not care and that would be the ones who want only to feed the data banks again. Is life so unfulfilling that they will continue to punish our young children for their own selfishness?
It is time now for a survey that teachers really can trust to be put out by the BOE, so that the BOE will really know the truth.
MY AG child never wants to read another book or do math after she gets out of school. I wonder why she is so burned out. Something is wrong in this school system and it is not the classroom teachers.
Let's also look at Dr. Holliday's claim of "Top Ten." Today's R&L article by Chyna Broadnax, the "Enamored," explains that "Top Ten" is achieved by "Using an original formula . . . " This handy "original" formula is not detailed in the article, but the new superintendent will need to be informed about its implementation, don't you think? Dr. Holliday himself has said (bless his humble heart) that "Top Ten" may focus too much on testing and has suggested a change of "vision," yet his rabid followers, including the R&L, just can't let it go. People - - the Messiah is gone and I don't think he plans to return to Iredell County. You who have depended upon him and Baldrige to escape classrooms and grasp power over your peers -- you may have to return your focus to educating the children of I-SS or you may need to move elsewhere!
ReplyDeleteI do not care if you put out all my scores for my students and my name, but when you do, then, I want everyone that is an IF to have their scores for the last 5 years that he or she taught school, published too. I want it ,also, done with principals , assistant principals and all administrative staff. Then, we can compare the data from all of these people and the ones in the classroom now, and I really believe our classroom teachers now would be higher and show more growth. That would be only fair.
ReplyDeleteClassroom teachers want a survey that is honest .
ReplyDeleteNCAE help!
Please get out an honest survey to our teachers about the real teaching conditions of this system. Then it could be presented to the ISS Board of Education. Thanks.
Anonymous August 4, 2009 10:51PM: How many IFs have had at least 5 years experience in the classroom? It would be nice to know that any one of them could handle a classroom at all!
ReplyDeleteRecord & Landmark: When will you display Baldrige wallpaper in you offices? So far I see no signs that you have purchased this program!! You STILL aren't making your reporters WORK, and you really should!!
ReplyDeleteAugust 4, 2009, 9:17: Sober up, and reread your post!
ReplyDeleteI agree that the School Board should send out an anonymous survey to teachers to ask for input in selecting a replacement. Most teachers will give good feedback especially if they think that this feedback could help their students. The school board should know that IF's were told that they are to coach teachers and not really work with students. IF's could coach teachers one day a month and spend the rest of the time working with students. Let's use some of the resources we already have in place and just make the job profiles more effective for student achievement. This would elminate the positions of IF coachs (who aren't even in the schools) and free up money to put more people in the schools working with our children.
ReplyDeleteAnother suggestion to save some money would be to use IF's as first choice substitutes. They should already be aware of how each classroom operates and would make for a well-qualified sub already on the payroll. We wouldn't have to spend so much money on substitutes. Just an idea.
The above post is really on target! Great suggestions in this post should motivate the school board to make a positive step to support teachers and students. Well done!
ReplyDeleteGreat idea, but I still want to see one or more of the IFs back in the classrooms serving as model classrooms. I want to see them walk the walk and not continue to talk the talk. It is now time to get rid of some of the excess in this county and you will see the teachers bloom and our students will, too. We as teachers should be able to choose what really works in our classroom. We are professionals that have not been treated so for a long time. The attitudes have been snobbery at its best from the higher ups.
ReplyDeleteIF's that aren't APs should also be reduced back to 10 months. Let's keep saving money. Also if we put IF's back in the classroom, we will have to lose some new teachers that really want to be in the classroom. That would be a shame.
ReplyDeletePerhaps there are graduate students in Iredell County that could put together a legitimate climate survey for all ISS personnel that could be a feedback tool that personnel could use to evaluate the administration, schools, testing without one having to use their ISS email for access or that did not have any traceable identification numbers or names.
ReplyDeletePersonnel meaning employees not Human Resources. Sorry I didn't edit that closely enough before posting.
ReplyDeleteThey will have to do something to guarantee privacy if that survey is done. I worked at a school that had problems and an environmental scan was done. That is when they bring in someone from "the outside" to meet with all employees. It is supposed to be confidential and lack retaliation. The problem is, they used an ex-principle from the system to conduct the surveys. Many did not want to even speak to the person. Hence, the manipulation of data once again.
ReplyDeleteI heard that the NC budget was resolved and that the system would operate on the same amount of money that they operated on last year? Does anyone know if that means that the TA's will be reinstated?
ReplyDeleteStaff could receive survey in school mailboxes with envelope to mail to post office box not the ISS mailbox with all the other mail to prevent "contamination" or locked box could be placed beside time clock. Completed surveys could be placed in locked boxes insuring privacy. Of course Board of Education or Interim Superintendent Brady Johnson would have to sanction the surveys. Do you think they really want to know how their employees feel?? And the survey results would have to be viewed by a trusted individuals.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of having a locked box beside the time clock. I am sure that we could find a third party or two who would be willing to collect the surveys and compile them.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the question about the budget. What I am hearing is that the state is saying that they did not increase class size, but are cutting the funding to the districts. This way, they can say "we didn't increase class size" and pass the blame on.
ReplyDeleteyeah, let's put 32 vetern good teachers back in classrooms....which would put 32 other teachers out of jobs! WHY??
ReplyDelete70 TAs out of a job, but so far the new interim superintendant has added a central office position to the HR dept. I hear Mr. Ellis is moving to a position that he wants, but is not qualified for and they are replacing him and adding a member to the HR staff.
ReplyDeleteSO far that equals to me, not triming costs, but adding CO positions!
we don't even have a time clock! sounds like wannabe employees trying to run the district - or retirees who are not in the 21st century!
ReplyDeleteOk, all you Baldrige haters - time to move out of STATE! Check out the new state school improvement template from the link on the DPI homepage.
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh - it is a PDSA - Run, Run for your lives!!! a 21st century problem solving tool - what is the world coming to? Guess you will have to stop being a state employee!
http://dpi.state.nc.us/
I think it is understood what is meant by the term time clock. You make an incredibly ridiculous argument 8-5 5:41pm.
ReplyDeleteOh, we have a timekeeper on the computer. I think that could be considered as a time clock. And what do you mean by the term wannabe employees? Ahh, the arrogance that has spread and filtered from the top of the pyramid. Are you considering yourself to be above the citizens who have true and valid concerns?
Would you really like to see the evidence of a fair survey and see what ISS employees truly think? I certainly would. I dealt with some administrators who did not want to allow certain questions on surveys. They really did not care what the feelings of their employees were. I remember the SR&L doing an online survey a couple of years ago dealing with Baldrige. It received the largest response of any survey that I had seen administered by the SR&L. There were over 900 respondents. And 92% said to do away with Baldrige. Of course, the SR&L backed away from that information.
What employees and citizens would really like is the freedom to agree or disagree without having to deal with tantrums like the one posted above at 5:51 - a typical rant from the "leadership" of the past 7 years.
ReplyDeleteUh - Baldrige is a 20th century business model, not 21st. Reinventing the wheel? Again?
ReplyDelete5:51, who do you think pushed the Baldrige framework towards DPI? You don't think possible bigwigs in districts discussed how awesome the model was and how it helped improve the system by showing "imaginatively captured" data? Or, possibly, a company came in and discussed how buying their method would really improve the system?
ReplyDeleteYes, as mentioned, it is a 20th century business model that is being pushed on education as we are always behind the times. Problem solving tools are only good if they're worth the paper they're printed on. When people slosh around jargon just to fill the pieces of paper, it becomes a fruitless effort. Problem solving should be less about jargon and more action. The trouble with the 20th century model of Baldrige is that we get bogged down in paperwork that the real work never actually gets done.
I love working in ISS and fully support the IFs and the work of the district that has resulted in student gains.
ReplyDeletefinally, someone positive! How about all of us that support ISS starting a positive blog! Board of Ed members are you just listening to the squeaky wheel? What about the hundreds of satisified teachers and parents? Lower dropouts, better facilities, higher performance, magnet and IB programs - what's wrong with moving forward?
ReplyDeleteYes, why doesn't someone start a Baldrige blog as a supplement to the Iredell-Statesville Schools web site and the Statesville Record and Landmark? Just do it! In the meantime, this blog will continue to advocate for the education of the children of ISS.
ReplyDeleteWell instead of saying negative and postive, you could at least say this is a Delta blog! And what is wrong with that? Oh, but deltas are not appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI am also proud to work in ISS and think this blog is just the few disgruntled people that any workplace has.
ReplyDeleteThank you Board of Ed. and Dr. Holliday for your visionary leadership for the last 7 years. Here's to another 7 years of moving forward so our children can compete for jobs in the future. What was good enough before, is not good enough for today.
Delta is the greek symbol of change. Deltas are suggestions for change, not what you do not like.
ReplyDeleteBetter facilities probably would have come about regardless of who the Super. may have been. Lower dropouts are good, but only if they are educated. Higher performance is good,but in contrast what was the trade off? It means teaching to the test. Magnet and IB Schools, well that is good. We needed to do something to bring students back into the district. I apologize for my Deltas.
ReplyDeleteSo true. A Ronald Reagan era model (Baldrige) is really not good enough for today!!
ReplyDeleteThank you Board of ISS for wanting to stay the course to better schools. We cannot go backward.
ReplyDeleteA board that only listens to the complainers and does not seek out all points of view, will find themselves making descisions the citizens do not support.
Oh my gosh 8-5 9:30.
ReplyDeleteAre you some sort of Greek god? You must be an IFFER.
Motivated faculty and staff
ReplyDeletea board committed to excellence
teachers willing to learn and improve their methodology
kids who know what the target is
a system where all children can succeed
A system where the status quo is not good enough
striving for better
Students moving on to higher ed and not dropping out to live on welfare
Proud of ISS and what we stand for.
The positives speak for themselves
An excellent place to work and an excellent place for an education
Okay, an alien has invaded.
ReplyDeleteI am a parent who thinks that this system has improved ten fold from one with a despicable dropout rate, horrible reading passing rate and a financial disgrace - to one where parents and teachers can say we are proud to send our children to ISS
ReplyDeleteThe rest can go to the charter schools and let their children fall behind. Dissatisfied teachers can go work at charter or private schools.
Change is good when it helps children.
The naysayers on this blog should hang their heads for trying to publicially disgrace the system.
Keep up the great work teachers of ISS and the Board of Education. Thank you Dr. Holiday.
Board of Education: If this blog is only "a squeaky wheel," or "a few disgruntled people," then why are the above posters giving it so much attention? It looks like they may be fearing for their own positions, whatever they may be. I doubt they are classroom teachers. Why would anyone be opposed to an accurate employee and parent survey? (Maybe they are really anti-Baldrige people who want to keep the comments coming in)? Great! Keep this blog alive as it is truly a worthy cause.
ReplyDeleteKeep it coming. Let's get the ones who "publicially" disgrace the system and accolades to Dr. "Holiday." Isn't he out of here?
ReplyDeleteIFs all have at least 5 successful years in the classroom - check your facts or you are spreading ignorance
ReplyDeletethank you to the IFs for the professional development you provide.The collaborative PLCs are the best thing we have done in years.
ReplyDeleteYes, thank you to the Board for your support of initives that are giving us great rates of success!
ReplyDeleteI am a classroom teacher and proud!! Of course when people talk about scores we are talking about growth! 100% proficient means nothing when the state sets the bar so slow. My students walk in the door proficient, so I have to strive to help them grow.
I welcome the board to come into classrooms and see that the buildings are full of satisifed teachers.
IFs have at least 5 successful years in the classroom: There may have been a "few" exceptions. You check YOUR facts!
ReplyDeleteYes, support those "initives."
ReplyDeleteIf this blog is about posting opinions about ISS, why can't anyone post something positive without being called an alien, of have people make fun of them for being positive.
ReplyDeleteOh, and the "satisifed" teachers. Or did you mean "Baldrigifed?" Love it! More?
ReplyDeleteThose who live in glass houses should not throw stones
ReplyDeleteoh now they are spelling critics
ReplyDeletePositive is the 9:07 post. Sweet and naive. the others are just plain mean!
ReplyDeleteA little teachable moment from an ISS teacher to those that are complaining about something they do not understand.
ReplyDeletePlan = using data to determine a gap that needs to be improved
Do = what are you going to do about it
Study = what was the result
Act = what will you do differently/same with a similar issue/gap
Lesson planning at its finest
At the school where I teach, our survey showed that the staff was dissatisfied with the school. Our principal then chastised us because the survey made it appear as though our school isn't a great place to work. Chastised for our survey results, how ISS :)
ReplyDeleteI'm glad there are some satisfied teachers out there, but they really are the exception and not the norm.
I love ISS!
ReplyDeletelovin' the positive vibe tonight! yeah for free speech!
ReplyDeleteif you are at one school, why do you speak for all 1400 teachers? what an ego
ReplyDeletethank you 10:09.... I love it too and the education my four children are getting by teachers who embrace action research.
ReplyDeleteSo, why do you suppose you teach for all of the teachers? What a hypocritical ego.
ReplyDeleteHello Mrs. Hoover and Mr. James! Are you going to fabricate and duplicate letters of complaint and send them to the board again with bogus names?
ReplyDeletespeak*
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr. Rogers and fellow board members for your insight on wanting to continue the current success of ISS.
ReplyDeleteYeah, where's that pro-Baldrige blog? Looking forward to reading all about it! Just try to ease up on those 1980s technologies. Not sure that Iredell County (or even the state of NC) has caught up to that era.
ReplyDeleteThank you postitive teachers of ISS for finding your voice.
ReplyDeleteI love free speech also. And I believe your dialogue is welcome. Debate is healthy. The problem is there has been no debate. The newspaper denied many the freedom to express their frustration. I have been through four IF's in six years. Two are no longer in the system. I respected all the IF's that I worked with. The problem is that all the teachers in my IF meeting were spending their valuable time going over material that was not necessarily new. These teachers felt like their time was being wasted. I guess the Pluses would think they are bad teachers. But please express that to the students who learned from them. Teaching is more of an art than a science. Certainly there are tools that will be helpful. But I don't think teachers have to come from one mold.
ReplyDeleteWhat's very interesting about the dialogue here is that the pro-ISS people are pushing Baldrige. I don't think any anti-Baldrige employees would be upset if they were given a choice in the matter of Baldrige. If, instead, they were given teacher autonomy to use methods appropriate for their style and classroom, they would be very satisfied. Furthermore, the pro-Baldrige people could continue graphing and collecting data, and they would be equally satisfied.
ReplyDeleteAutonomy doesn't mean that you aren't allowed to continue using an approach that works for you in your classroom; it means that you are allowed to use whatever approach works best. Then you can look to see what the results are; if both methods receive similiar results, then there shouldn't be an argument.
Wow, not sure if the blog can handle all of this tonight, but I like it :)
ReplyDeleteI dare say there are more DISSATISFIED teachers than SATISFIED in ISS, but no one is brave enough to say it. We are no longer EDUCATORS who are given the opportunity to "ignite a passion for learning". We have become Professional Assessors and Wall Paper Hangers whose passion to teach has been "snuffed" out by all the data collecting and display decorating.
ReplyDeleteI belive some of the ProB's got together and did a PDSA on blog response. I have a several questions since we have a running dialogue tonight.
ReplyDelete(1)Why does the state not create rankings for the 115 systems as Holliday used to show improvement?
(2)Will the state use the standard by which Holliday chose to measure himself against others?
(3)And often when you gain in some areas, is it possible that something is lost in others (considering that some limited number of items are essential and some are not)such as a trade-off?
I await some answers to these questions?
I can see that some teachers may benefit from the type of graphics that Baldrige or any other data-based program offers throughout their careers. Most of us only need this structure through our first student teaching and initial years as professionals. Ask any doctor or lawyer what they need to monitor their own work-day processes. (Dr. Cash)?
ReplyDeleteDoctors? Lawyers? What about REPORTERS? Shouldn't the R&L reporters be using Baldrige? They need to WORK!
ReplyDeleteProB PDSA people: Keep us updated on your Baldrige blog. Can't wait to read all about it!
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know how many pilot programs Holliday involved the I-SS system during his tenure?
ReplyDeleteI just thought I would start asking a few questions so people may think.
Let me know if you start a Pro B blog. I would like to offer my opinions/ideas on that block. Unless the Pro B blog blocks my opinions as did the SR&L.
ReplyDeleteI believe the Pro B posters allowed about 60 minutes to their agenda time for posting.
ReplyDeleteI am still awaiting answers to my questions from 10:36.
It sounds like 10:14 is making an accusation against a former and current teacher from the smallest high school. How interesting?
ReplyDeleteCurious. I have no idea to what 10:14 is referring. 11:15: can you explain?
ReplyDeleteWhere did the pro-Baldrige people go? Night-night, I guess. Well, come on back tomorrow. We love to hear from you.
ReplyDelete10:14 is referring to the incident at South Iredell High School (the smallest high school) several years ago. There seemed to be some problems between some of the staff and the 2nd year IF and the new 29/30 year old principal. One of the teachers mentioned in the post resigned and went to another system. That person also ran for a BOE against Mr. Williams. The other teacher in the post chose to fight and stayed. That teacher had very deep roots in the community. This is the same year a situation occurred where a teacher was escorted from the campus but reinstated. That teacher left the following year. The coverage by the SR&L was limited. That high school lost a third of its teachers that year through various methods. One BOE member stated that it was a big mess. Now I await a reply from the 10:14 poster.
ReplyDeleteOK, 10:14. Don't leave us hanging!
ReplyDeleteWow, great comments tonight and a great debate. I think the dead have finally been awakened. What I have gathered from this dialoge is that it appears we have two sides that represent complete opposites. We have the people that are clinging to Baldrige and have felt that it has been expremely beneficial to them and their students. On the other hand, we have the folks that are anti-Holliday and anti-Baldrige and feel that it has been a complete waste of time and money. Perhaps moving forward, as with any other decision or situation, it requires a compromise. Baldrige, in itself, may have not been so bad, if it had been implemented correctly. Now hear me out, I'm not talking about spending all the money, taking all the teacher's time away from planning, holding meetings for input to only placate people. I think the process, if used correctly, as many other proccesses, can have positive outcomes if implemented correctly and honestly. The problems began to arise when Dr. Holliday became obsessed with Baldrige and lost sight, thru slick salemanship and grandiose delusions. Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. There are things to celebrate in ISS, however, they have come at a price. I think we have seen by the creation of this blog, that many in the system are dissatisfied. Many may not care about that. They should and here is why. As we have seen recently, many industries have run efficiently, prospered and thrived until we hit hard times. I think we have hit hard times in this country and ISS. The system has chugged along, growing in size and making progress as long as it was allowed to grow with no budget or restrictions. Now that we have fallen on hard times i.e. being put on a budget, we are starting to see where there are flaws. Let's agree to disagree on some of things, but definately agree that what we all want is "exceptional children". We want to produce young adults that can think for themselves and they can do that by being challenged by great teachers and other mentors. That is not measured by Baldrige or any other "shelf product". This is achieved by the many hours and committment made from caring individuals not just in the classroom. Yes, parents, you must step up too. I have seen too many divorced, single parent homes where children are coming to school with no breakfast, no appropriate clothing, no appropriate personal hygiene. IT GOES BACK TO PRIORITIES. That which we value we protect and serve. Let's get the "politics" out of our children's education.
ReplyDelete10:04
ReplyDeleteAn alien is something foreign. I think the connotation is something that comes from the outside. I am sorry that you misinterpreted the meaning, although it can have a double meaning. I now see how you perceive and judge me due to my opinions. Have I been labeled?
11:46
ReplyDeleteI agree with much of your post. I don't believe all things related to Baldrige are bad. I think there are some good tools. But to push it as one component that must be used by all is wrong. And the motivation, method, and ulterior motive for Holliday's indoctrination of the program was in my opinion wrong.
I am still awaiting a reply to some of my questions. Now think students. 8-5 11:02 and 11:09.
ReplyDelete11:46 - Great comments! PLCs this year were different and were much more beneficial because they focused more on instruction and collaboration this year than ever before.
ReplyDeleteTeachers have paid the price in terms of time, and not just planning time, a lot of our personal time has been spent in required meetings after school and making graphs. However, students have paid an even higher price. I shudder to think how many computers, smartboards, elmo document cameras, etc. could have been bought with the money used on Baldridge. While schools around the country, and in Davie county, have access to this technology, our students do not. They have lost an undeterminable amount of instructional time taking pre/post-tests and going through the PDSA process.
Despite that, I don't think all the elements of PDSA are bad. It's helpful to break down the curriculum into specific targets, it's good for the kids to set a goal, and even to have a celebration when it is achieved.
However, the DO part is too difficult for the younger grades, as they are not teachers. As part of the process, the teacher asks the kids "What can I (and you) do to help you learn...fractions/perimeter/subtraction?" While this may be appropriate for older grades, young children look at you and say "what are fractions?" The whole point of teaching is to teach things they don't know, and if they don't know what it is, how can they possibly know how to learn or teach it?
Comparing scores amoungst teachers isn't a good part of it either, especially when they don't use the same test. It also puts a lot of peer pressure on kids to meet the goal so the whole class can get the reward, which some will argue is not appropriate.
For people that fully support this program...how is the success or failure of it measured? Most, if not all, teachers used a math or reading program or textbook in conjuction with PDSA. There has been success in ISS on state tests, but how do you seperate how much of it came from the teacher implementing PDSA and how much came from the teacher implementing the math/reading programs which have improved over the years to accomodate state testing?
I think that was mostly one Pro-B person posting 9:09PM to 10:17PM. Good try.
ReplyDeleteHi, Amanda Sauer, good to hear from you.
ReplyDeleteI think you may be right 8:27 and 9:43. And I never got answers to my questions.
ReplyDeleteAugust 5, 2009, 5:51PM: Your tirade sounds so much like others endured by the teachers (and former principal) who were under the power of one of the first of the IFs and who is now principal of the school whose scores are surely the LOWEST EVER in the history of Iredell County/Statesville/Mooresville - under YOUR LEADERSHIP with viciously applied Baldrige since 2004! Maybe that wasn't you, but if you're reading, then you know who you are. Is it any wonder that some of us are bitter?
ReplyDeleteThe ISS system has been run in the manner of the Hitler regime for the past seven years. Hitler was the dictator that forced, pressured and threatened his way or the highway. That is all we have had in ISS, if you objected to the leadership you were forced out. Good thing the ISS administration couldn't stick those of us that fought back into concentration camps. For I fear if they thought they could have gotten away with it they would have. But they just BULLIED most of us out of education or to other systems. Just like 1000's fled the Hitler rule in Germany. We can only hope that now with the death of Hitler (or in this case his departure) that history will continue to be reflected in this situation. For once Hilter was dead and gone the people rounded up his henchmen and hanged them. Wiping out the horrible leadership that brought so much misery and pain to the people. Rise up citizens and take back your school system. This is the time to take a stand, before they replace Hitler with someone just as bad.
ReplyDeleteI have noticed something consistent over the years. People love to bitch, put each other down, be angry and raise Cain about issues; until someone asks them to roll up their sleeves and help fix what is wrong.
ReplyDeleteI’m not sure what the reason is. Maybe they are angry enough to complain but don’t really care enough to work hard for resolve. Maybe they get so hung up on “us against them” that they don’t want to meet with the other side and give in. If it is something other than this let me know. I have been trying to figure it out for years.
I used to have a bi-weekly column in the R&L until the R&L edited me so much it wasn’t even my article anymore. I quit when they refused to print an article they were concerned “would be too divisive”. (The title of my article was healing, not division. It was directed at those who continue to stir up racial divide.)
It didn’t matter to me at that point anyway. I wrote those articles for a long time. It wasn’t so I could be heard; it was to bring about change. People asked me to write about what upset them, mostly the condition of society and the government. People I had never met stopped me, thanked me for saying what I did and asked me to keep doing what I was doing. I still have people tell me they miss my column. Yet, I was never able to form a group of people to address the issues that supposedly meant so much to them. Without results, those columns were pointless.
I’m seeing that here again. Every time I made a post suggesting a starting point of resolve, that series of posts died. Look back over here and see. It seems there is plenty of hate and anger for the other side, but not much so much at the issues themselves.
I’ll tell you this; if we do form meetings such as I have offered to lead, everybody is going to be right and everybody is going to be wrong. The truthful answer to a problem is always somewhere in the middle. We need to get off each other and focus on those problems. That is why I said that there is no direction here. We aren’t moving forward.
It’s easy to be angry and attack others or rant about any subject. However it takes sincerity and dedication to change what is wrong. We have a given amount of energy every day when we wake up. How do you use yours, causing more division or searching for resolve? The sooner we find that middle ground starting point and shake hands, the sooner ISS can begin to heal.
My email address is: ISSresolve@yahoo.com
ReplyDeleteAs in all programs ,there are good things and bad things. We need an honest delta/plus chart that could really tell the story.
ReplyDeleteWe still want that honest survey for real parents and real teachers to do from every ISS school and every district's parents.
We do not want a survey that they say ,when you do this ,it probably will come back on you. That is the way it was.
I cannot remember where I read the blog about Transylvania County Shools scores going lower since Dr. Holliday leaving them. I checked those scores and that is not so. The only one who went down was Rosman Elementary and no lower than some of our elementary schools. The others have steadily gone up on the graph. These were the 2007-08 scores, because 08-09 were not yet on the DPI web page. If you take away our lake schools , our scores would not look too great. So does this really reflect ISS?
ReplyDeleteI wish I could type. Schools for shools. (edit, edit)
ReplyDeleteI found it and 8 out of 9 schools made AYP in Translvania County Schools. It was Brevard High who missed it by 1 . They had 11 out of 12. Still not too bad. Read "Translvania School News". This was preliminary AYPs for 2008-09.
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